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Author
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Comment
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Elizabeth
Unregistered User
(2/17/04 2:53 pm)
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Jim Henson's LABYRINTH
Hello everyone! I am a college senior majoring in film and I am working on a thesis on the Jim Henson film LABYRINTH. It is about Sarah, a teenager who in her frustration with her stepmother and baby half-brother wishes the Goblin King to take her brother away from her. He does, and she must find her way through a labyrinth to the Goblin City so that she can save him before he is turned into a goblin.
I am looking at it as a postmodern fairy tale, so I am doing research right now on archetypal and modern fairy tales. My question for all of you is, are there any fairy tales or other sources that you would recommend? More specifically, I am trying to find stories that deal with goblins stealing children (I need older ones, but I am also looking for more modern stories), so any fairy tales that deal with that would be perfect (and would the term "changeling" fit here?).
I have already found some books/stories that should be useful: The Wizard of Oz, Alice in Wonderland, Cinderella, Where the Wild Things Are, Outside Over There, The Goblin Market, The Princess and the Goblin, Erlkonig (I'll just stop there -- I actually have more from an archived thread on this board, but there were too many to list here).
So, please respond if you know of anything to add to this list. Thank you!
Elizabeth
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Valkith
Registered User
(2/17/04 4:41 pm)
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Re: Jim Henson's LABYRINTH
Stephen King's "Cats Eye"
The movie, where as the Goblin in the wall is trying to steal the little girl's breath, while her cat tries to defend her while she sleeps.
Its the last short movie.
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oaken
mondream
Registered User
(2/17/04 5:14 pm)
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Re: Jim Henson's LABYRINTH
There are a few stories (that I can think of) about either little children being stolen away by the fairies, or else adults (mostly a young woman) being stolen away to act as a midwife. There are also a fair amount of tales with a femme fatale fairy that lures men away to their deaths.
Tithe, by Holly Black however, is a really good (and entertaining) novel about a changeling girl in the human world.
Also, the fairy tale short story collections by Terri Windling and Ellen Datlow I think would be really helpful here. I can't think of any specific short stories that fit what you're looking for but that's because I don't have them in front of me. But they've complied a plethora of contemporary adaptations of fairy tales and you should be able to find at least one or two stories to help you out.
Another book that actually does have goblins in it, and they sort of try to take one of the characters away is Goblins Glen by Harold Gaze. Unfortunately its not in print.
So, what makes Labyrinth post-modern? Or a fairy tale post-modern?
just curious,
jill
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Veronica
Schanoes
Registered User
(2/17/04 10:13 pm)
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Re: Jim Henson's LABYRINTH
This is going to sound very single-minded of me, because in my one other post on this board I talk about the Persephone and Demeter story, but I taught a course on contemporary revisions of classical mythology in which I used *Outside Over There* in the unit as a revision of Persephone and Demeter, with elements of Orpheus and Eurydice as well, both stories about rescuing a beloved stolen away, in these cases by death rather than by goblins.
I think the term "changeling" is very relevant. A changeling is a fairy child that the fairies leave in place of the human baby that they steal (so the baby made of ice in *Outside Over There* is a changeling, but Ida's baby sister isn't). I can't remember whether the goblins leave a goblin baby or anything like that in place of Sarah's baby brother, though.
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Elizabeth
Unregistered User
(2/17/04 11:25 pm)
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Thanks
Thanks to all of you for your suggestions! I will be looking into them.
And to answer your questions . . .
Jill - I am going to use Jim Collins' essay "Television and Postmodernism" (which can be found in Stam and Miller's FILM AND THEORY: AN ANTHOLOGY) to argue that LABYRINTH is a postmodern fairy tale (television is of course not the same thing as film, but the postmodern ideas can be carried over). He says that postmodernism deals with the idea that "the 'already said' is being constantly recirculated" (761) and that there is a level of "hyperconsciousness" (763) involved. He gives an interesting example of this:
"Umberto Eco has argued that this ironic articulation of the 'already said' is the distinguishing feature of postmodern communication. In his often-quoted example, he insists that we can no longer make innocent statements. A lover cannot tell his beloved, 'I love you madly,' becuase it would very probably produce only a laugh. But if he wants to make such a declaration of love, he could say 'As Barbara Carland would put it, 'I love you madly.' ' The latter indicates a mutual awareness of the 'already said,' a mutual delight in ironically manipulating it for one's own purposes. This emphasis on irony is often written off as mere 'camp' recycling, but such a view fails to account for the diversity of possible strategies of rearticulation." (761)
So, I am arguing that LABYRINTH fits into this description because its filmmakers were obviously very aware of the fairy tales that came before it and were conscious of the connections that they were making to such stories (one part that I like is when Hoggle is killing little flying fairies, which Sarah is troubled by, and she picks one of them up, but is then bitten by it, and Hoggle says something like "What did you expect fairies to do?" to which she says grant wishes, so he says "Shows what you know, don't it?").
Veronica - What you said about the changeling is very interesting. The goblins actually do sort of replace the baby when they take him. Sarah is leaving the room when he is taken, but when she hears the crying stop she goes back in and starts walking to his crib. Before she gets there, though, she hears a noise and the sheets in the crib move. By the time she gets there nothing is in the crib, but there was obviously something in it before, and there are also now goblins around the room.
So, one could say that the goblin in the crib was just there to get the baby, but that does not quite make sense since the immediate end to his crying seems to indicate that he was taken away by more magical means. Therefore, it makes more sense to think that, even if just for a few seconds, another goblin was in his place. (Or to combine these two ideas, maybe when the baby was taken magically what really happened is they made him switch places with a goblin, which is why the goblin - the changeling - was in his crib, so he supposedly was transferred to wherever the goblin was. Is that how changelings work, or are they more just put there to fool the parents?)
Thanks again!
Elizabeth
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Richard
Parks
Registered User
(2/18/04 9:25 am)
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Re: Thanks
This is probably neither here nor there, but when a lover tells
his beloved, in full blossoming context, "I love you madly"
I can picture any one of a multitude of things happening, all almost
equally plausible. If, otoh, all he gets is either laughter or a
gentle reproof for his lack of irony, well, he needs to look for
another partner.
http://dm.net/~richard-parks |
Laura
McCaffrey
Registered User
(2/18/04 9:42 am)
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Re: Thanks
For older versions online: (fairy abduction or changeling)
www.pitt.edu/~dash/abduct.html
and scroll down to changelings from here:
www.pitt.edu/~dash/folktexts.html#c
LauraMc
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RymRytr1
Registered User
(2/18/04 9:51 am)
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Re: Thanks
"I love you madly" is English, with madly meaning "to insaneness", what we hear now is, "I'm crazy about you".
And another aside, where someone said:
Quote:
I like is when Hoggle is killing little flying fairies, which Sarah is troubled by, and she picks one of them up, but is then bitten by it
, reminds me of the "already said/used" in Bogy and Bacal's
To Have and Have Not. Eddie asks several people if they ever been
stung by a dead bee? The immediate response is the question, how
can a dead bee sting and his answer is that he must have been stung
a hundred times, going bare-foot in the summer time.
Point is, that there seems to be no plot that hasn't been previously used, in one fashion or another.
Fairy tales of certain types have fallen out of use for many reasons, one being relevancy. How do you scare someone with thoughts of wolves, beasts, etc., when they have no relationship to current living. How many children know what a danger a wolf is, in the wild, since they do not live in or near the wilds. How many children know what a wood cutter does and why he does what he does?
Our basis for "what goes bump in the night" has changed
and so must our stories, if they are to relate to what we fear.
It's like the story in Troop Beverly Hills when she is telling the
story of the lady who went shopping, found all the perfect cloths
and accessories and then her CREDIT CARD WAS NO GOOD! It's all relevant.
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Heather
KT
Registered User
(2/18/04 11:42 am)
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Re: goblins
The Hollow Kingdom, by Clare Dunkle, is a fairly new YA novel(2003) with a goblin abduction theme. It's a fun read, with a well-realized goblin world.
Heather
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aka
Greensleeves
Registered User
(2/18/04 1:09 pm)
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Re: goblins
Elizabeth, for a very full treatment of stolen children, get yourself
a copy of Katherine Briggs's The Fairies in Tradition and Literature.
It has just about everything you ever wanted to know about changelings
and fairy folks' craving for human children.
Edited by: aka Greensleeves at: 2/19/04 11:34 am
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Elizabeth
Unregistered User
(2/18/04 9:03 pm)
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Thank you!
Thanks again to everyone who has replied! I'll be looking into your suggestions.
Elizabeth
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AlisonPegg
Registered User
(2/19/04 1:03 pm)
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Stolen children etc.
Here is a story about a stolen child. It's a very ancient theme I think. There are many Celtic tales about changelings.
The
Strange Tale of the Ebony Comb
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Terri
Windling
Registered User
(2/21/04 4:39 pm)
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Re: Stolen children etc.
There's an on-line article about Changelings on the Endicott site:
www.endicott-studio.com/jMA0301/changelings.html.
Changelings, and the movie Labyrinth, have both been discussed on
this board before, so be sure to check the Surlalune discussion
archives.
Edited by: Terri Windling at: 2/21/04 4:40 pm
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johnnymuscle60185
Registered User
(2/21/04 4:49 pm)
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Shakespeare and The Changeling
I believe Shakespeare had something (but very little) to say about the changeling in "A Midsummer Night's Dream." The little attendant that set the quarrel between Titania and Oberon afoot I believe was a changeling. Also there is either an Elizabethan or Jacobean play called "The Changeling" by John Middleton (?). Don't know this play myself but the title came to mind when I read your post. Good luck!
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johnnymuscle60185
Registered User
(2/21/04 5:15 pm)
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The Changeling
My understanding is 'the changeling' was the traditional explanation offered by the ignorant/superstitious for the birth of a deformed infant, an ugly infant, a stillborn infant, or an infant that died very shortly after birth. The changeling was not a healthy, beautiful, magical fairy baby but an ugly, deformed, or dead fairy infant left in place of a healthy, beautiful human baby the fairies (or goblins) had snatched from its human parents. Am I correct? Thanks for your help!
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Niniane
Sunyata
Registered User
(2/22/04 2:12 pm)
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Re: The Changeling
I think I may have mentioned this before, but some of the themes
in "The Labyrinth" also crop up in Cecilia Dart-Thornton's
"Bitterbynde" trilogy.
Anita Harris.
Terra Mythogene
www.mythopoetica.com
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Terri
Windling
Registered User
(2/23/04 8:21 am)
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Re: The Changeling
Johnnymuscle: Yes, you're correct. There's more information on this in the on-line Changeling article I mention in my post above. Another resource for changeling lore is Strange and Secret Peoples: Fairies and Victorian Consciousness by Carole Silver. Silver's book is an excellent study of fairy lore in Victorian times and includes a chapter on changelings.
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Guest
Unregistered User
(3/11/04 4:56 pm)
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Hollow Kingdom & Changelings
I'm interested in your work on Labyrinth, as I found it a source of ideas for my own work, The Hollow Kingdom. I found the Labyrinth story most convincing as a construct within the young protagonist's mind--as a budding adult, she must decide for herself which elements of her overactive imagination are "dangerous" and which are "safe" in her efforts to accept responsibility for her actions. The goblin king himself points out that he is what she makes him. Ultimately, she rejects him but keeps those positive and supportive elements from the Labyrinth world that allow her to enjoy the occasional moment of childhood.
My own story, The Hollow Kingdom, builds on the British folktales of abduction in a very deliberate way, incorporating both "changeling" and direct "stealing" elements. My theory as an author is that we cannot make up "new" stories, and, indeed, that new stories are not particularly useful to the human mind; instead, we engage our fellow authors and readers in a dialog and process of discovery by playing with the elements of stories that have come before. In my second YA book, Close Kin, which is a sequel to The Hollow Kingdom, a little girl who loves fairy stories winds up talking to one of my fantasy characters. While she is telling tales, he is telling her his history, and for a time, neither one of them notices the difference.
In terms of other "stealing" tales, the most magnificent teen fantasy I know is The Perilous Gard. It's a very creative look at the British folklore milieu.
Clare Dunkle
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Terri
Windling
Registered User
(3/12/04 10:08 am)
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Re: Hollow Kingdom & Changelings
I agree that The Perilous Gard, based on the Scottish
border folk ballad Tam Lin, is a wonderful book. Have you read other
retellings of the story? There's Pamela Dean's Tam Lin
(which sets the story on a Sixties-era college campus), Diana Wynne
Jones's Fire and Hemlock (a contemporary tale set
in England), Patricia A. McKillip's lyrical Winter Rose
(loosely based on Tam Lin), and Jane Yolen's picture book version
Tam Lin, among others.
Edited by: Terri Windling at: 3/12/04 10:09 am
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BarbaraAnnette
Registered User
(3/15/04 11:10 am)
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Changlings
In Pater Haining's Leprecahn's Kingdom, there is a story about a changling.
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Bielie
Unregistered User
(3/16/04 11:21 am)
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Changeling
Little, Big by John Crowley
www.amazon.com/exec/obido...ce&s=books
Also: Rudyard Kipling's Cold Iron in Rewards and Fairies
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