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Author
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Comment
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Delia
Unregistered User
(8/17/02 1:34:16 pm)
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Melting-pot fairies
I'm coming out from my shadowy corner (where I've been enjoying your conversations tremendously) to ask for some help.
I'm writing a New York fairy story in which Our Heroine visits an Underhill populated by all the various fairies and folk-spirits imported by the immigrants who live there. I'm fine on anything Katherine Briggs ever heard of, but I don't have similar sources for Middle European, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, and South American of pretty much any variety. Quick and dirty is best. Mostly, I need names and descriptions so that Our Heroine will have something interesting to look at as she is searching.
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Midori
Unregistered User
(8/17/02 1:54:44 pm)
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japanese
Delia,
Get your hands on "Japanese Ghosts and Demons; Art of the Supernatural" edited by Stephen Aldiss. It is probably still available at a good bookstore (Rizzolis if you're in NY) or a good library. It has everything you could possibly want on Japanese cool demon/ghost/fairies/tricksters/demon quellers/giant spiders/ and complete with fabulous art work to make up for any lack in the description (which is still pretty damn good). Besides it's just a cool book--big trade paper back about $20.00
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BlackHolly
Registered User
(8/17/02 6:19:32 pm)
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Re: Melting-pot fairies
You might also want to look at Carol Rose's _Spirits, Fairies, Leprechauns, and Goblins_ which has quite a lot of cross-cultural stuff in it and some indexes of creatures by culture in the back. By some weird quirk, I have two copies (okay, I forgot I owned it and bought another one). If you want the second one, I'll mail it to you.
Holly
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Delia
Unregistered User
(8/17/02 6:50:43 pm)
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Melting-pot fairies
Thank you, Holly. I'd love that. I'll take good care of it and send it back when I'm done.
I read Eloise McGraw's The Moorchild, by the way, and loved it. It's a delicate little book, utterly unsentimental and cleanly written, about a changeling who tries to go back UnderHill. I've found another book by McGraw called the Golden Goblet, about Ancient Egypt, of all things. Has she written anything else?
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BlackHolly
Registered User
(8/17/02 7:44:15 pm)
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Re: Melting-pot fairies
I'll send it right out. I feel less guilty for buying two now.
I haven't read anything other than Moorchild. Looking on amazon.com though, it looks like she did a lot of historicals. The Egyptian books, a Black Plague book, an American West book, a Norman invasion book...and, weirdly, a couple of Oz books. But sadly, no more faeries.
Holly
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Heidi
Anne Heiner
ezOP
(8/17/02 9:27:34 pm)
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Aside on McGraw
McGraw, born in 1915, has had a prolific career, but most of her work is out of print. "Mara, Daughter of the Nile" (available in paperback) was a favorite of mine as a preteen and her "Greensleeves" is a hard-to-find, but beloved book by many of the readers who discovered it. I adored it when I was a teen and should revisit it. It is dated in setting, but can be seen as historical fiction now, I imagine. I just remember it being about identity and hiding, especially from one's self. The main character is fresh out of high school and decides to escape her confusing identity by living "undercover" in a boarding house. She is helping her godfather, a lawyer, to determine if a recently deceased woman was coerced into leaving much of her money to her fellow tenants, but of course learns about dream-fulfillment and herself along the way.
"The Golden Goblet" and "The Moorchild" often appear on recommended reading lists--"Golden Goblet" was on one that I created last year. Those are her titles which stand out to me. I read several of them when I first discovered her, but don't remember the content of the others as well. I know I haven't read the Oz stuff at all.
More on topic, I am on vacation but will be returning soon, so I will consult my shelves once again for any books that might be helpful for melting-pot fairies.
Heidi
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janeyolenaolcom
Unregistered User
(8/17/02 10:49:36 pm)
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International fairies
The peri is a Persian fairy and you might want to check that. In fact, check my FAIRIES RING which has a bunch of International fairies from Persia, Scotland, England, Wales, Greece, New Zealand (Maori), southern Africa, France (Breton and Norman.)
Jane
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cloudshaper
Registered User
(8/18/02 2:04:56 am)
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Another GREAT reference book...
Is "The Great Encyclopedia of Faeries" by Pierre Dubois (Simon & Schuster), still in print I think.
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swanchick
Registered User
(8/22/02 2:58:04 pm)
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Russian faeries
Delia--
If you would like to include Russian spirits in your story, you might want to take a look at Linda Ivanits' _Russian Folk Belief_; it's all about the spirits they believed inhabited houses, natural features, etc.
swanchick
P.S. I just got my hands on _Through a Brazen Mirror_...finally...and
it is very good!
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Kerrie
Registered User
(8/23/02 2:11:56 am)
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Llewellyn...
Hello Delia!
I know a lot of people don't like books by Llewellyn, but I've found the following book helpful:
A Witch's Guide to Faery Folk: Reclaiming Our Working Relationship with Invisible Helpers by Edain McCoy
Part 3, "A Dictionary of Faery Folk of the World," runs from page 169-341 and seems to have entries for most of the countries you mention. Each entry consists of Name, Land of Origin, Other Origins, Other Names, Element, Appearance and Temperament, Time Most Active, Lore, Where to Find Them, How to Contact, Magickal and Ritual Help.
I could let you borrow it, if you like. Are you still in the area?
If not, I can drop it in the mail. Let me know.
Dandelion wishes,
Kerrie
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InterstitialGirl
Registered User
(8/24/02 6:41:07 am)
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Re: Another GREAT reference book.../PIERRE DUBOIS
Omigod, Pierre Dubois....! Delia & Terri & I had lunch with him in Paris last year, at our mutual French publishers' house, to celebrate the launch of his "Bibliotheque Elfique" (which as far as I know, to this day contains only Thackeray's THE ROSE AND THE RING and my THOMAS THE RHYMER - both of which could be got cheap). He is quite a character: wears a full beard and leather jerkin, eats with a beautiful dagger, and will do almost anything to make you laugh.
The French respect him because he is also a scholar - can quote chapter and verse, and is reputed to have one of the finest folklore libraries in Europe. He looked askance at us when we sat down to lunch, because he thinks all Americans are avatars of MacDonald's....but by the end of it he was offering us his house in Brittany - and he put Terri in touch with some Breton fantasists who asked her to write the intro to their upcoming exhibit (sorry, Terri, I've probably mangled the details).
If you read French, get ahold of his recent short story collection "Contes de Crimes" (Hoebeke) - if you say it aloud in French it sounds like "Contes de Grimm," or Grimm's Fairy Tales. They are all retold fairy tales with a mystery element: Peter Pan, for instance (not a trad tale, I know) turns out to be Jack the Ripper - hey: revenge on the mother who locked him out, uses a knife and cannot be found....
Ellen Kushner
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Delia
Unregistered User
(8/24/02 10:35:24 am)
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Thanks
I just got back from a writers conference, where I made a some rather puzzled young fantasy writers talk about fairy tales. Most of them didn't quite get what fairy tale structure had to do with writing fantasy and getting it published, but a good time was had by all, and they'll figure it out. The important thing is to get them thinking about it.
You guys are wonderful. I have Holly's book to start reading just as soon as I put in the laundry, and many fine leads to follow up over the next few weeks. I'm not going to be around for a while, since I'm going to World Con and then to Arizona. But I'll be thinking about the story, no to mention all your help. Thank you.
Delia
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DonnaQ
Registered User
(8/24/02 6:27:01 pm)
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That fairy tale class...
I just got back from a writers' conference where the teacher spent a whole class on fairy tales... and I can say that at least one person loved it! A few of the participants did seem a bit, um, frayed - esp. when asked to write a quick tale. Who would have guessed that a group of SF / Fantasy writers would be so stymied by a request like that? I'm sure I didn't help matters by proceeding to read a quick-penned and somewhat mangled (in terms of narrative anyway) story.
Don't let her post fool you; Delia's class was a complete success. She's a great teacher: both knowledgeable and inspiring.
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sdn
Unregistered User
(8/24/02 8:05:48 pm)
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more on mcgraw
this children's book editor steps forward to say a few more things about eloise jarvis mcgraw.
what is most notable about mcgraw is the breadth of her career and her books' subject matter. she was a three-time newbery honor winner -- in 1953, for MOCCASIN TRAIL; in 1962, for THE GOLDEN GOBLET; and in 1997 for THE MOORCHILD. her other books range from present-day suspense to complicated historical fiction to, of course, the OZ sequels. she did the cover art for at least two of her novels, too.
i never had the pleasure of meeting her, but puffin is the proud paperback publisher of MASTER CORNHILL and her older two newbery honors.
delia, what was this conference?
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Delia
Unregistered User
(8/26/02 4:47:28 pm)
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Cape Cod Writers' Conference
A week on Cape Cod, teaching one 1 1/2 hour class a day. Heaven, right? Very nearly, except for the food, which was uneasily reminiscent of summer camps past and unlamented.
It was primarily a mainstream conference: poetry, non-fiction books for kids, The Novel, magazine articles, numerous classes on things like writer's block and getting published. This was the first year they'd offered a class on SF/Fantasy.
The class was wildly assorted: 2 teenagers who have read a great deal and are still in that wonderful state where they're writing all the parts that interest them and the devil take narrative flow or characterization; 3 very talented amateurs in search of a community of like-minded writers; 1 male person of unknown ability and boundless faith in his superiority to everyone else present. We had fun around him and sometimes through him, but we did have fun. I'm very glad that Donna enjoyed it--thank you.
I'm very glad I went. Ellen and I had the chance (over cardboard chicken and rubber potroast) to educate a lot of people who are stuck in the "Fantasy is for kiddies who can't deal with reality" mindset, and talk about Interstitial and Mythic Fiction with poets, who are very enthusiastic about such things. I sent everyone who seemed even tangentially interested to this board and to the Endicott Studio.
DS
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janeyolenaolcom
Unregistered User
(8/26/02 10:28:19 pm)
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Hmmmm
I wonder if that's the same Cape Cod conference I taught at when my kids were elementary school age. They put us up in a cottage on the grounds of the conference site.
I don't remember the food, but we were mostly cooking our own, since the kids weren't civilized enough to eat with the grownups on a daily basis.
Jane
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Terri
Registered User
(8/27/02 1:36:52 am)
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Re: Hmmmm
As it happens, I just had lunch with Pierre Dubois here in Devon at my local pub last week. He's as charming as ever, and as *incredibly* knowledgeable about folklore as ever. He brought me a beautiful old French edition of Histoire d'un Casse-noisette, with illustrations by Adrienne Segur. The other Segur fans on this board will appreciate what a prize that is!
The exhibition Ellen mentioned above is an exhibition of fairy art from medieval mansuscripts to the present, to take place in Brest (in Brittany) from December through March. It's going to be quite extraordinary. When I have more specific information, I'll post it here. For those of you who aren't close to Brittany, they're publishing an extensive catalog. (I've written some of the text for this.) Claudine Glot, the curator for the exhibit, came to Devon to meet with me, Brian & Wendy Froud, and Alan Lee (who will all have work in the show), and she brought Pierre along with her, as well as two other companions. Lovely people, all of them.
My apologies, by the way, for being off the board for so long. A combination of ill health and urgent business matters has has been swallowing up my time. But I'll try to check in more often.
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Gregor9
Registered User
(8/27/02 6:18:18 am)
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Re: japanese
Delia,
I'm weighing in late, but Midori's suggestion is great. I have a copy of "Japanese Ghosts and Demons", and it's superb.
Greg
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Delia
Unregistered User
(8/27/02 3:36:05 pm)
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What counts as a fairy
So, are demons and ghosts fairies? I know they all show up regularly in folklore and legends. But I don't feel quite comfortable with them living side-by-side with the Wild Hunt and peris and hamadryads and Queen Mab. I bet they don't feel quite comfortable with it either. As I think about this issue--supernatural characters of all races, forms, and backgrounds being forced into close contact in New York City--the more I think this sounds more like a book than a short story. But I'm used to that.
Jane--I don't know if it was the same conference, but it's been around for 40 years, so it very well could have been. The faculty was mostly in little white-washed rooms in a central house, many of them with shared bathrooms. It used to be a church camp of some sort--Church of Christ, I think. Classes and all lectures and panels and readings were held in the Tabernacle. Holy Literature!
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janeyolenaolcom
Unregistered User
(8/27/02 11:26:18 pm)
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Yup
Yup, Delia--that's it. We had a cottage because we were an entire family (plus babysitter.)
Jane
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Midori
Unregistered User
(8/28/02 3:02:03 am)
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demons and ghosts oh my
Delia,
I think they're pretty close cousins--some ghosts happen because of medling with fairy--for instance the tale of the man who heard fairy music one night in the woods--followed it underground to a great ball and only after he'd been dancing for quite some time did he realize that the fairy musicians were playing a dance for all of his dead--including the girl he might have married had she not died. She grips him oh so tightly about the wrist as the horrified man tries to flee the dance...which he does but carries a burn scar around his wrist. The wil-o wisps keep the ghosts of their victims around like dreary slaves--pale trophies of their powers. As to demons--not all of them appear in the stories as say, cosmic counterparts to gods. Some times they are just nasty unseelie-type of creatures with huge appetites and bad tempers to be bested or avoided by erstwhile hero types (or outwitted)...or accidentally married (my personal favorite). Huldra, the Swedish wood-witch-demon-(never sure just what to call her) who appears as a beautiful woman and then lures men into the forest. When they catch her, she turns into a rotting stump and, no doubt laughing her head off at the little trick, sets the hapless fools to wandering mad with desire.
The book Japanese Demons and Ghosts has a pretty wide range of folk in it--Tanuki and Kitsune-- for instance who I think would be right at home with a melting pot of fairies (in fact both of them make an appearance in my story "Demon" in "Bordertown"-- which certainly had its share of fairie, demons and the odd ghost.)
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