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Comment
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elana
Registered User
(9/14/06 3:50 am)
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Brothers Grimm Research
Hello! I am new to these boards. My name is Elana (I know, my username is very creative) and I am a senior Literature-Theatre student at Reed College, which means that I am in the process of writing a thesis.
As a theatre/lit student, I hope to do research on the Brothers Grimm and use this research to inform/guide a play that I write, which will be part-historical, part adaptations of Grimm fairytales. I will direct the play next semester, but that's another story altogether :/...right now, however, I am having a bit of trouble just narrowing my research focus (well, my focus in general, but I figure you can probably help me more on the research component than on my own creative indecision :) ). It's all just so darn interesting!
I guess the first and most practical question I can ask you (that doesn't consist of "what do YOU find most interesting about the Brothers Grimm?") is that I was wondering if anybody had an idea about how many of the editions of Kinder und Hausmarchen have been translated into English. I know that the Brothers revised their collection 7 times, and might be interested in doing a comparative analysis of a select number of tales from each edition to see what changed and theorize as to why...however, I do not speak German and was wondering if anybody has worked with different translations and knows what's out there. There are major bonus points if there is one scholar who has translated multiple editions of the tales (so I don't have to worry as much about comparative translation analyses). So far most of the copies that I can find are translations of the final edition. I have also thought of doing a cross-cultural analysis of specific tales, so if anybody has any input on that, I would love to hear it.
Another, broader question that I have is simply that I am interested in learning more about the various critical approaches to fairy tale research. I understand that psychoanalysis is a popular approach, and have checked out Bruno Bettelheim's "The Uses of Enchantment" (is this still representative of current trends in fairy tale research, though?). I also understand that as far as research in folk tales and mythology goes, there is an anthropological approach, as well as an exploration of the role that gender plays in the fairy tale. Are there other critical approaches that you are aware of? Do you know more about the ones that I have listed/could you point me to any good books that discuss or adopt these approaches?
And finally, just any general advice or insight that you have would be more than welcome. I am a little overwhelmed by this ambitious project. I'd love to hear about any good books on the subject, any fairy tales you think are begging to be put on stage, any knowledge of the Brothers Grimms' lives that you think would make an interesting play...hehe...I am in the developing stages, so nothing is off-limits!
Sorry this has been such an enormous collection of questions! But I am in desperate need of any help you wish to offer, big or small. Did I mention that this is an amazing community?? Good to know there are other people as obsessed with fairy tales as I am :) ...
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kristiw
Registered User
(9/14/06 8:57 am)
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Grimms Research
Hi Elana,
Welcome to the board! Folks here were very helpful when I was writing my thesis, so I'll try to reciprocate... First of all, I'd be careful with Bettelheim-- everyone really interesting is controversial, but you should read up on the criticisms if you plan use the book. Other people you should definitely know if you don't yet: Maria Tatar (The Hard Facts of the Brothers Grimm particularly), Jack Zipes, Ruth Bottigheimer, and Marina Warner. Check out Valerie Paradiz's book, Clever Maids: The Secret History of the Brothers Grimm, too.
I don't know what you know already so I apologize if I'm covering old ground, but one of the main differences in the translations is the intended audience; the earlier editions were for a scholarly crowd, and as the Grimms realized they had a large readership of children, they edited accordingly: the stories got less sexy, but more violent (Tatar talks a lot about this). It's also important to remember the collection of the folktales was part of a nationalistic project. The Grimms were in favor of a German nation, and much of the impetus to gather the stories was to discover/create a sense of the German people, unified by their Folklore. They were also fairly selective in their ideas of "German-ness," so while ostensibly they were trying to avoid stories which were clearly oral versions of originally French literary tales, they might include or exclude something more based on values than geography. That's the most interesting angle on the Grimms to me-- that self-consciously political use of folklore.
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Heidi Anne Heiner
ezOP
(9/14/06 12:46 pm)
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Re: Grimms Research
I'm short on time, but will briefly address two of your questions.
First, the Oxford Companion to Fairy Tales edited by Jack Zipes has an article "Approaches to the Literary Fairy Tale" which briefly discusses six of the most popular critical approaches including:
1. Folkloricist
(think Stith Thompson)
2. Structuralism: Vladimir Propp
3. Literary: Max Luthi
4. Psychoanalysis: Jungian and Freudian
(Bettelheim uses Freudian, Marie Louis von Franz uses Jungian)
5. Historicist, Sociologial, and Ideological
(think Jack Zipes, Maria Tatar, and Ruth Bottigheimer)
6. Feminist
(Marina Warner's From the Beast to the Blonde; Bottigheimer and Maria Tatar use this approach some, too)
Hint, using my link to Amazon will take you to where you can search inside the book for the article and see if it is helpful to you.
Also, the questions about Grimms translations are not my expertise. Donald Haase, who occasionally posts here, is an expert. If you search the archives of this board, you will find several discussions in which he answers questions similar to yours. I'm not going to post some of the links due to time and the hope that serendipity in the boards might help you more. Don also has an excellent book, The Reception of Grimms' Fairy Tales, that may interest you, too.
Heidi
Edited by: Heidi Anne Heiner at: 9/14/06 12:50 pm
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Heidi Anne Heiner
ezOP
(9/14/06 12:48 pm)
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Re: Grimms Research
For searching the archives try something like "site:www.surlalunefairytales.com grimms translations" in Google and similar variations, including adding "Don."
Heidi
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elana
Registered User
(9/14/06 2:36 pm)
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Re: Grimms Research
Kristi--
Thank you so much for your response! I too am very intrigued by the "self-consciously political use of folklore" (great way of putting it)...I find it fascinating that the Grimms would even purport to "capture the German spirit" through chronicling the fairy tales. What does that even mean??? From what I gather, the other academic work that the Grimms did relates to their nationalistic agenda as well (I guess they worked on compiling a German Dictionary--sort of like the OED--as well as writing about mythology). I guess the biggest problem I am having is that I am more accustomed to literary analysis, where the text reigns supreme, and the concept of an oral culture/folklore worries me because, though written down, it is not intended solely for literary use. I guess I just don't really know HOW to go about analyzing the tales to get at the Grimm's political agenda...if I should look at differences between the German tales and similar tales in other cultures (might be interesting in terms of how the Grimms would even "define" their culture, what values and qualities were 'valued,' etc)...or at how they altered their tales to meet and pander to a different audience through their revisions...hehe, I could go on and on :) .
Thank you so much for your recommendations, though! I've read the
Tatar, but will look at some of the other names. On a sidenote,
I LOVE the fact that when somebody asks me about what my thesis
is about, I am able to respond "Fairy Tales!", if only
to see the looks on the faces of the Bio-Chemistry majors ;)
...
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elana
Registered User
(9/14/06 2:40 pm)
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Re: Grimms Research
Heidi,
Thank you so much for your incredibly informative post! I will definitely look at the Oxford Companion and do some more research on the various approaches to research. This community is wonderful!!
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aka Greensleeves
Registered User
(9/15/06 2:42 pm)
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Re: Grimms Research
Quote:
I guess I just don't really know HOW to go about analyzing the tales to get at the Grimm's political agenda...if I should look at differences between the German tales and similar tales in other cultures (might be interesting in terms of how the Grimms would even "define" their culture, what values and qualities were 'valued,' etc)...
Well, my degree is in English and anthropology, so I can probably direct you some here. I would look for information on the German nationalist movement of the time (contemporary as well as modern historical scholarship; each will give you different sorts of perspective), so you can begin to think about what elements were valued, the sorts of things people were thinking about and looking for, etc. Once you have a familiarity with what that political agenda might have entailed, you can go back through Grimm and (hopefully) those elements will leap right out at you.
Good luck!
~Elizabeth C. Bunce
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elana
Registered User
(9/19/06 12:49 am)
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Re: Grimms Research
Thanks Elizabeth! I will look into studying up more on the historical context of the Brothers Grimm.
I have another, more specific question directed to you all...are there any good, reliable biographies of the Brothers Grimm out there that you would recommend to me?
I read one at the university library in Kassel, Germany (the only one they had in English, actually...though I don't have the name with me right now) and it was very...well...floofy. From what I understand, this is a very big trend in Grimm scholarship in general--there is a tendency to turn them into fairy tales. This is all well and good, their lives certainly lend themselves to that, but I am interested in more of the details of their lives, that which makes them human, the conflicts (guess I'm a dramatist, eh?). Anyhow, if you have any recommendations, I would be happy to hear them!
Thanks again,
Elana
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Heidi Anne Heiner
ezOP
(9/19/06 7:30 am)
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Re: Grimms Research
My top pick for a bio and to help you with your topic would be Jack Zipes' The Brothers Grimm: From Enchantment to the Modern World. The entire book is not a biography, but the other essays about the tales may help you.
Also look up:
The Hard Facts of the Brothers Grimm by Maria Tatar
The Reception of the Grimms' Fairy Tales by Donald Haase
Grimm's Bad Girls and Bold Boys: The Moral and Social Vision of the Tales by Ruth B. Bottigheimer
Heidi
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