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Author
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Comment
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Sandmore
Registered User
(9/6/05 3:03 pm)
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Writing and fairy tales...
Hi, all. Feeling kind of stupid here, as I tried to post this earlier and wasn't able how to figure out how to get my posts to show. Now I'm registered so maybe this will work.
I'm a writer for children--fairly newbie--been at it for about four years. I find myself writing picture book mss. now which have fairy tale elements (falling under the broader definition posted on this site) and one that is a fractured fairy tale. I'm enjoying it, but have a great fear of treading in fairy tale territory because I'm not an expert on what has gone before. I know what I like, what I've read and re-read, what I've dreamt, but I can't know it all and I'm just afraid of being terribly unoriginal. I'm also afraid, to a certain extent, "fairy tale people gonna get me!" That is, true fairy tale fans and scholars will know instantly that I am a fraud, a newbie, etc. Like I'm coming to a field like, oh, race car driving, with the naive hope that if I just go really, really fast, I'll win.
I'm not sure why I feel this way when in writing mainstream stories with no fantastic elements at all, I don't quiver in my boots at the thought of being seen as "derivative." That is, I am more sure of my originality--even though everything's been told before. Odd, when you'd think that in the area of fantasy, there would be much more opportunity to be original.
I'd welcome any thoughts on the subject. Should one be a fairy tale expert, or at least a serious student of fairy tales, before attempting to write anything similar? Can I feel okay about my fun fractured fairy tale picture book and submit it without first studying every single version of the particular tale? It is a very popular tale I have spinned, and I have merely checked to see that something similar hasn't been done.
Susan
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rosyelf
Registered User
(9/6/05 3:32 pm)
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fairy tales and writing
You have read and re-read fairy tales and clearly love them-otherwise you wouldn't be doing this, right ? And you've dreamt them-how wonderful that is. I don't think you need to be an "expert" at all, only passionate about what it is you are doing. With all due respect to the "experts" on this board, I have sometimes found the academic approach inimical to my own writing process. I'm not saying don't read what they have to say, just bear in mind that reading a lot of stuff when you're also trying to write your own thing can be paralyzing.
Good luck.
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Writerpatrick
Registered User
(9/6/05 3:33 pm)
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Re: Writing and fairy tales...
One doesn't have to be an expert to write fairy tales, although it helps for non-fiction writing about fairy tales. If you're retelling a story, you need to get as many versions of the story as possible to avoid using something that a particular writer may have created.
If you are thinking of rewriting existing tales, try to be as original as possible. Don't just repeat what has been done before. And be careful of the "fairy tale style" because it's often passive writing, usually caused when scholars try to translate the stories.
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Veronica Schanoes
Registered User
(9/6/05 6:00 pm)
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Re: Writing and fairy tales...
Quote:
If you're retelling a story, you need to get as many versions of the story as possible to avoid using something that a particular writer may have created.
I disagree with this, actually. It's good to read as many different versions as you can in order to expand your understanding of the resonances different elements can have, but I don't think it's a problem to use a given element created by another writer. As an example, Angela Carter made Sleeping Beauty into a vampire. I think there's room for more Sleeping-Beauty-vampire stories, as it's an interesting connection and not exhausted by one short story. A Sleeping-Beauty-vampire-story writer would want to make her/his story different from Carter's, but that goes without saying.
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DividedSelf
Registered User
(9/6/05 6:42 pm)
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Re: Writing and fairy tales...
Love this post, because you've expressed exactly how I feel.
Really interesting question too. I think if you're writing in a tradition, you probably need to be informed by that tradition... and maybe tradition is a bit like a temporal extension of society - something we need to find a meaningful way of interacting with one way or another...
And probably it pays you back whatever dues you give to it... (One should damn well hope so, at least!)
It probably depends what you're doing and why you're doing it.
And there may be arguments about marketing what you've done, I don't know. Anyone?
For me, there's something else... Most of the above probably applies to any kind of writing, but what I get from reading these deceptively simple things is an effect something very like chamber music - Which I think might be peculiar to this kind of story, in which character, location, event recur in different sequences and combinations rather like notes in polyphony.
I know Rosyelf's totally right to say this kind of thinking can get in the way of creativity, but I think it can enhance it too - depending on what it is you're doing. For instance, it would help to have a thorough grounding in musical theory before trying to write the St Matthew Passion... as well as a lot of other things besides...
On the other hand, you might just be writing great, spontaneous stories, and, if so, tradition will probably come to you, and anyone who tries to "get you" will be pretty much wasting their time.
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Writerpatrick
Registered User
(9/7/05 8:01 am)
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Re: Writing and fairy tales...
Veronica, I was talking about copyright issues. If one is retelling a fairy tale one must make sure they are not copying the work someone else did. That's why it's necissary to read multiple versions, especially when working with translations. For instance, one version may use an orange in the story, but others use a lemon. From that one can conclude the the original story used a lemon.
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AliceCEB
Registered User
(9/7/05 11:49 am)
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Re: Writing and fairy tales...
I find that if I'm retelling a tale, I'm best off NOT re-reading any version of the tale until after I'm done. I work entirely from memory (which is very imperfect). The result is a story which is fresh and mine. Afterwards, I go and read as many versions as I can (for all the reasons stated above). If I work the other way around (i.e. read lots of versions first), I find I'm hampered by the other authors' tellings, and whatever I write isn't fresh, and never feels like mine.
As for the study of fairy tales--I find it really interesting, but it fits in an entirely different part of my brain, one I don't tap while I'm writing (unless it's unconsciously). I'm much too focused on the story to try and figure out all its history or ramifications. If I started analyzing what I was writing, I think I'd be paralyzed. (Or mortified... not sure...)
After saying this, I want to add that everyone works differently. What works for me may paralyze you. I guess you have to experiment and see where you are most comfortable.
Best,
Alice
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aka Greensleeves
Registered User
(9/7/05 2:58 pm)
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Re: Writing and fairy tales...
There are a couple of things you can count on:
1. You won't please everybody.
2. There will always be someone who knows more than you.
You can't do anything about either of those. If you care about having your work informed by tradition (I do, but that's how *I* write), then read as many original versions and scholarship on particular tales as you can stomach, until your own story starts to take flight. Then abandon your research and let the story have its wings. You can always come back to the literature, for inspiration, for answers.... It's there to guide and inspire, not to constrain.
The reason these tales haven't died off into obscurity is because they are so adaptable, they are so forgiving of being turned and twisted and stretched and recolored. There are basic, elemental truths in them that span centuries and cultures. It is those essences you must tap, but the rest is up to you.
And then there's my mother-in-law's favorite maxim: If you look like you know what you're doing, no one will question you. So do it with confidence--proudly, boldly, make them your own.
Write on!
--Elizabeth C. Bunce
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Veronica Schanoes
Registered User
(9/7/05 4:39 pm)
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Re: Writing and fairy tales...
Yeah, but if the original's a lemon, nobody can copyright the orange. You can't copyright a plot point. You might as well use an orange if the spirit moves you, is my point. I see what you're saying, I just don't think it's really a big risk.
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Writerpatrick
Registered User
(9/8/05 2:16 pm)
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Re: Writing and fairy tales...
It's not just about plot points, it's about phrases and sometimes names. Disney named the seven dwarfs and has copyright to those names. If someone could show that your story contains many similarities to thier story, they could sue. Even if you do use some of the same elements, you need to prove that they are not unique. It's simply a matter of professionalism and protecting oneself. (Courts do not look kindly on people who "do as they feel".)
Also, the story you may be familiar with may be someone's interpretation of that story and it's necissary to work out what the original was. I noticed this when reading a copy of Grimms which was under copyright and comparing the stories to others. And by familiarizing yourself with the different versions, it's easier to work out an original and possibly better version.
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megaerairae
Registered User
(9/8/05 8:29 pm)
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Re: Writing and fairy tales...
Yeah, copyright is one of those things I always wondered about when I saw the Disney version of Beauty and the Beast; I'm still not sure how they managed to avoid the whole copyright issue with Robin McKinley's Beauty. I mean, the library, her bookwormness, the enchanted servants, the horse. Those are all things that first appear in her copyrighted retellling. But then, one should never underestimate the fell power of Disney and their legions of lawyers. ;) |
Veronica Schanoes
Registered User
(9/8/05 8:33 pm)
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Re: Writing and fairy tales...
Well, enchanted servants show up in more than one retelling, and bookworminess--you can't really copyright such general character trait.
Obviously, one shouldn't use Disney's dwarf names, if only because they're stupid. But I saw a pantomime Snow White last Christmas that was so incredibly indebted to Disney--the witch's headdress, Snow's outfit, the songs which were clearly the Disney songs rewritten, if you know what I mean--"Whistle While you Work" became some other song about enjoying doing housework--among other points, that I really don't think there's too much of a danger.
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PWCatanese
Registered User
(9/9/05 8:54 am)
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Re: Writing and fairy tales...
Susan - just do your thing and bring your own spin to it. You can be sure that someone somewhere has done something at least remotely similar. And never mind what's out there now, what about all the stuff that's out of print? What about story lines in video games, tv shows, and elsewhere? There's no big directory out there summarizing what's been done (wouldn't that be nice?) so you'll never really know, and it probably won't matter.
I had similar concerns when I started my fairy-tale-inspired novels, then just decided not to worry about it. The heck with it, just write the best story you can.
- Paul
the novels of
p.w. catanese
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MmusicOfTheNight
Unregistered User
(9/23/05 10:45 am)
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Don't Worry
I had a lot of the same feelings when I first started working with twisted tales. My advice....Just don't sweat it!
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