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Author
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Comment
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maxime29
Registered User
(10/3/05 10:51 am)
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The Grimm Brothers and how they collected tales
Hello everyone!
I'm currently on a scavenger hunt for information regarding the Grimm Brothers and how they collected their tales for a research paper. I've found so far only a couple things regarding how they re-wrote some tales to meet their "requirements", but I've had no luck finding where they acquired them. I was told they got the tales via random people they talked to and their own readings, but I sort of need that written down so I can cite it for credibility. Any recommended reading or websites I can use? (Note: I checked Google, but my search terms didn't come up with much other than a brief history of the brothers and what they did.)
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A Jessica
Registered User
(10/3/05 11:45 am)
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Re: The Grimm Brothers and how they collected tales
Recommended:
Clever Maids: The Secret History of The Grimm Fairy Tales by Valerie Paradiz
All about the Grimm Brother's female sources.
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Heidi Anne Heiner
ezOP
(10/3/05 12:54 pm)
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Re: The Grimm Brothers and how they collected tales
For a relatively short but excellent book on the subject, I second the recommendation.
Paradiz, Valerie. Clever Maids: The Secret History of the Grimm Fairy Tales. New York: Basic Books, 2004.
You can also look at the introduction and notes (includes sources) in Zipes' translation of the Grimms.
Heidi
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DerekJ
Unregistered User
(10/3/05 1:47 pm)
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Re: The Grimm Brothers and how they collected tales
Since they were oral/cultural historians--who usually didn't want to bother too much with their "witness" source, unless it was being cleaned up for commercial sale--it's easy to notice a disparity in the storytellings:
Some are standard "Once upon a time" narratives, while others are still in "Okay, so a guy goes down the road and he does this..." anecdote form.
A couple of Arabian Nights stories ("The Spirit in the Bottle" "The Treasure Cave") even turn up in the collection, mainstreamed out of all possible context, but hard to tell whether they'd borrowed them from a translation (with the whole "Indo-European" interest in the 1K1AN) or had just heard them secondhand.
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Rosemary Lake
Registered User
(10/4/05 1:17 am)
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Tatar "hard facts"
I remember liking this one, tho it's been a while since I read it. The Hard Facts of the Grimms' Fairy Tales by Maria M. Tatar (1990)
Iirc, about people complaining about countless wicked stepmothers, the author said: "It's quite easy to count them. There are 13."
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Don
Registered User
(10/5/05 8:39 am)
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Re: Tatar "hard facts"
Paradiz's Clever Maids is a seriously flawed book that misrepresents actual scholarship on the Grimms, and I would not recommend it as a reliable source for understanding the Grimms as collectors and editors. Tatar's The Hard Facts of the Grimms' Fairy Tales and Zipes's introduction to his translation of the Grimms' tales are the first places to look. There's also an excellent essay by Siegfried Neumann, "The Brothers Grimm as Collectors and Editors of German Folktales," in The Reception of Grimms' Fairy Tales (ed. D. Haase). It's also reprinted in Zipes's The Great Fairy Tale Tradition.
Edited by: Don at: 10/5/05 8:40 am
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maxime29
Registered User
(10/18/05 5:08 pm)
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Re: Tatar "hard facts"
Thank you for the suggestions!
One other favor I ask:
This is all for a research paper I am in the process of preparing for. My only issue is that I cannot come up with a thesis statement which will direct my writing. My ideas that I submitted are too "historical", and they need to be something that I can debate my point of view.
I had something along the lines of how the Grimms re-told their stories in their way like how guys like Perrault and Basile told theirs their own way.
Can you guys lead me into a direction to which I can create a debatable topic for my research?
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Veronica Schanoes
Registered User
(10/18/05 6:44 pm)
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Re: Tatar "hard facts"
I would go back to the stories themselves. Go over them with a pen (or computer) in hand and take notes on what fascinates you about the tales. Once you've done that, take a break for a day. Then go back and reread your notes and find the theme that connects the largest part of what you're interested in. Let your thesis be based in your concrete notes.
Sorry this is irritatingly vague, but a thesis has to come from your own thoughts.
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Rosemary Lake
Registered User
(10/18/05 8:49 pm)
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debatable
I had something along the lines of how the Grimms re-told their stories in their way like how guys like Perrault and Basile told theirs their own way.
Can you guys lead me into a direction to which I can create a debatable topic for my research?
------------------------------------------------
I remember posting not long ago here about a book saying the Grimms and other 'collectors' really invented the form/s which the 'collectors' claimed had evolved among oral tellers. I think you could find quite a few areas for debate suggested there. The author also talked a lot about the Cabinet des Fees writers.
Maybe someone else will remember some key words.
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Helen J Pilinovsky
Registered User
(10/18/05 11:28 pm)
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Re: debatable
Elizabeth Wanning Harries Twice Upon a Time: Women Writers and The History of the Fairy Tale sounds like it just might fit the bill ...
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kristiw
Unregistered User
(10/19/05 2:49 pm)
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question
I wonder if you could elaborate, Don, on the flaws and misrepresentations of Clever Maids? I'm reading it (along with Harries book, actually) for my thesis and while I always try to read critically, it would be nice to know what specifically I ought to take with a grain of salt. Thanks!
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princessterribel
Registered User
(10/23/05 10:26 am)
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Re: question
Hi,
Jack Zipes' book ' The Bros Grimm; from enchanted forests to the modern world' is rather specific...having said that I think you could find references to this topic in all of Zipes' works.
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maxime29
Registered User
(10/27/05 10:25 pm)
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Re: question
I checked on the Clever Maids book with my professor, and she realizes the controversy around it. I will still use it for my research along with the Zipes book.
I've decided on my thesis to be that the Grimms used their personal morals and implied them in the tales. I'm planning on elaborating about Germany in the 1800s, their lives growing up, and the techniques they used to edit their stories. I'm planning on using Hansel and Gretel and Red Riding Hood since they show morals along the lines of Christianity.
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Rosemary Lake
Registered User
(10/28/05 2:47 am)
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Red Riding Hood
Red Riding Hood has some very different earlier versions to contrast with the Grimms' -- see that thread.
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