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Comment
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Anuda
Registered User
(11/12/05 5:36 pm)
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Rumplestilstkin performance--all input is welcome!
Hello,
I'm in the first year of a performing arts program, and for one of my classes I have to tell/perform the telling of a fairy tale. I have chosen Rumplestiltskin.
I noticed in the archives there were a number of people with interesting things to say about Rumpelstiltskin, including him being the moral center of the story, or Rumpel as the 'outsider', or 'foreigner'. I would love to hear all views, for that may help to shape the way in which I decide to tell the story. If you have written any essays on the topic I would absolutely love to read them and would be deeply ingratiated (if I have used that word correctly).
And if anyone has any links that would lead me to different version of the tale, or tellings that are different, I would also be very pleased.
You may email them to me at lindsayfrancisco@hotmail.com
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Veronica Schanoes
Registered User
(11/12/05 9:43 pm)
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Re: Rumplestilstkin performance--all input is welcome!
I've never agreed that Rumplestiltskin is the moral center of the story--mostly because I think that some bargains can't and shouldn't be enforced, and that they include taking away someone else's baby. Add to that that Rumplestiltksin extorts the bargain from the miller's daughter under duress--if I recall correctly, she's going to be executed if she fails to spin the straw into gold--and I don't think he has any moral ground to stand on whatsoever.
Two things strike me now that I think about it. One is that this is a prototypical "deal with the devil" story, but the other is that the Miller's Daughter seems like a trickster figure. She tricks the Queen, and then she tricks Rumplestiltskin and she gets away with it.
Edited by: Veronica Schanoes at: 11/12/05 9:58 pm
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Random
Registered User
(11/12/05 10:31 pm)
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Rumplestiltskin
Actually, I believe that on the third occasion, the miller's daughter was spinning in order to become the king's wife, rather than from any threat to herself. This changes the "under duress" idea a bit, as it becomes a matter of her trading her child away for the sake of ambition rather than out of fear for her life (though I suppose the consequences of refusing the King could be pretty frightening).
Myself, I still tend to look fairly kindly on Rumplestiltskin, for all that his intentions were probably not good for the child ("tomorrow I brew" is a bit ominous). However, he did bail the queen out of a pretty bad situation, waiting until it was not so desperate to request the highest price. And he had nothing to gain by playing the name game, so that might be regarded as proof of human feeling from him (i.e. pity).
Either way, to the original poster, you might want to read the annotated version of Rumplestiltskin on Surlalune, if you haven't already.
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Veronica Schanoes
Registered User
(11/12/05 11:10 pm)
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Re: Rumplestiltskin
Well, The King doesn't explicitly threaten her life the third time, but he has done twice before, and the implication of the Miller's daughter thinking that "she saw no other way out of it [her situation]." suggests to me that the consequences of not spinning the straw into gold are likely to be a bit more severe than just being told to go home and find a young man of her own social class.
What I always find a bit disturbing is that the Miller's Daughter, who seems like a perfectly nice young woman in a bad spot, ends up married to someone who a) married her for money that she doesn't actually have and b) was willing to execute her if she hadn't provided said money. This is a happy ending? She ends up tied for life to a murderous miser?
Heh. I never thought of the idea that R. was preparing to "brew" the kid. Interesting.
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Rosemary Lake
Registered User
(11/13/05 2:00 pm)
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Ashliman
A while back I looked through Ashliman's "Name of the Helper" set of stories. I didn't notice any that combined a greedy/lazy girl with a baby (except perhaps Grimms?) There were several greedy/lazy/deceptive girls but none of those stories mentioned babies iirc. I saw only two or three stories with babies, and one of them had a virtuous widow (no king or gold) who promised something unspecified that she never thought might apply to a baby. I'd have to look again, and I may be wrong, but at the moment I don't recall anyone knowingly promising a baby, ftm -- except in Grimm.
I wonder if the Grimms were combining versions, and if they intended to make such a puzzling, evocative combination.
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monicaroses
Registered User
(11/14/05 6:14 pm)
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rumpelstiltzkin
Check out "Straw Into Gold" by Vivian Vande Velde, in her alternative fairy tale collection called, Tales From the Brothers Grimm and the Sisters Weird.
In this version, Della (the miller's daughter) and Rumpelstiltzin become friends. The story ends with Della leaving the King for Rumpelstiltzin.
Good luck.
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sally e
Registered User
(11/15/05 8:32 am)
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Rumplestiltskin
Actually, the tale bothered Vivian Vandevelde so much she wrote a bunch of different versions of the story in her book The Rumplestiltskin Problem. She pretty much turned the tale around in all the possible ways you could imagine. Another interesting take is Diane Stanley's picture book, Rumplestiltskin's Daughter, in which it's revealed that the miller's daughter and Rumplestiltskin ran away together to get away from that awful king who wanted to chop her head off! And Spinners by Donna Jo Napoli explains Rumpelstiltskin's desire for a child in a sympathetic (albeit creepy) way. My favorite, however, remains Eleanor Farjeon's The Silver Curlew, which casts the miller's daughter as a somewhat foolish girl, Rumpelstiltskin as an evil imp, and the younger sister of the girl as the hero. This version is actually based on the English version of the tale, Tom-Tit-Tot, but I'm not sure how they relate--if one was based on the other or if they grew separately.
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Writerpatrick
Registered User
(11/15/05 10:23 am)
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Re: Rumplestiltskin
There's a similar story called "The Three Spinning Women" or "The Three Spinners" www.surlalunefairytales.c...women.html
That story has a girl in a similar situation, but she is helped by three women.
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Rosemary Lake
Registered User
(11/15/05 2:59 pm)
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The Three Spinners
I love that tale! The Grimm version is a little heavyhanded with the old women saying "It will make your fortune." I like it when that comes as a surprise. It's a little surprising that the lazy, deceptive girl has no hesitation about inviting the old women and introducing them as her aunts; so I'm sort of waiting for the other shoe to fall. And then the prince's reaction is another suprise, and it all turns out lighter and funnier than expected.
However there's nothing about the old women's name or any other riddle. I do love how fairy tales mix and match motifs. Reading this tale while expecting some darker problem, makes this tale more effective, more surprising.
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Veronica Schanoes
Registered User
(11/16/05 4:55 am)
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three spinners
I love that tale! I think I love it especially because it's one of the most anti-didactic ones, in which gratitude and decent manners trump lying and laziness. Speaking as a lazy person myself, I cannot help but be thrilled. It's also one of the few tales I can think of in which some is given a specific injunction or rule to follow--and they actually do it!
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Rosemary Lake
Registered User
(11/16/05 8:27 am)
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following instructions
Her following the instruction -- is a surprise. :-)
I suppose a pattern could be seen, tho I'd call it coincidence: 'Three Spinners' is unusual with a 'bad' person following instructions, and 'Rumplestiltskin' types are unusual with a 'bad' person keeping his word and doing a good job, and then keeping his word about leaving her alone because she guessed his name. Hm, 'Whuppity Stoorie' also talks about the law of the elves, but I suspect the teller just made that up.
Let's see, there are unrelated serious tales where someone does follow instructions. Maybe it's only after they've been disobeyed, tho. In 'water of life' types of stories, someone eventually does it right. In the one with a fox as mentor where the hero keeps doing it wrong, he finally does it right, iirc.
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