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Author
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Comment
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Veronica
Schanoes
Registered User
(6/26/05 2:33 pm)
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Angel of Death
Hello all,
I'm looking for Ashkenazic folkore about the Angel of Death. I know about the custom of changing a deathly ill child's name in order to outwit the angel--my great-grandmother's name was changed when she was 10 for that very reason. I also know why Ashkenazim don't name children after living people--the angel might get confused about the names when it comes for the older person and take the child instead. Does anybody know of any other relevant customs or stories? For instance, I must admit I don't know the Yiddish name for the angel.
Thanks!
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AliceCEB
Registered User
(6/27/05 8:30 am)
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Re: Angel of Death
I'm not sure this has to do with the angel of death, but in Ashkenazy tradition, you do not prepare for a baby's birth (such as decorating a room or buying a layette), nor chose the baby's name until after the baby is born. The general idea is that it's bad luck to alert the world (the angel of death?) of the impending birth lest the baby die before being born or at birth. I'll check with my mother who is better versed on these issues to see if I got the reason right.
Best,
Alice
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Veronica
Schanoes
Registered User
(6/27/05 12:40 pm)
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Re: Angel of Death
Thanks for reminding me of that tradition, Alice! I can't believe I forgot it, given that my mother has more than once told me that my father insisted on it when she was pregnant with me, and she only allowed it with the understanding that he would then be responsible for setting everything up himself!
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KathieRose
Unregistered User
(6/27/05 5:50 pm)
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Angel of Death
Once again, Veronica, you've brought up a topic that soooo interests me! I had a deep and disturbing dream years ago that made reference to the Angel of Death, did a little research then, but would love to hear more on this topic.
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AliceCEB
Registered User
(6/27/05 7:26 pm)
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Dybbuks and superstitions
I consulted with my mother who remembers endless numbers of superstitious behavior, most of which was to confound or to protect oneself from dybbuks--evil spirits. She understood the practice of not preparing for a newborn was "so as to not tempt the dybbuk." She also recalled a woman whom she knew who had been given the name "Die Alter" which translates as "The Old One." Apparently her parents had had two other children before her who had died in infancy. When the mother was pregnant with her, they went to a rabbi who suggested the name so that the Angel of Death would figure that she was old, and would not be interested in taking her.
She recalled other practices--again to ward off evil in various forms. She had an uncle who travelled frequently on business to Europe, but would never tell anyone which plane he would be on, or if he did, he'd tell folks the wrong one, again to confound the devil or evil spirits. If her parents said something bad or evil, they would pretend to spit on either side of them saying "Shpei'en! Shpei'en!" ("Spit! Spit!") and would add a sentence which translated roughly as "Fear of the devil." My father claims it was "Fear of cholera." (I have divergent sources...)
Some practices, such as knocking on wood, may have been picked up from gentile society. And some, such as dissembling to confuse an evil spirit, show up in other cultures--my mother particularly remembers a conversation with a Chinese woman who explained that when discussing her newborn grandson she told other women that he was particularly ugly and probably stupid, the women nodding knowingly and offering their blessings.
Best,
Alice
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janeyolen
Registered User
(6/28/05 4:09 am)
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Re: Dybbuks and superstitions
The fooling-the-angel-of-death lore has fascinated me for some time. (I wrote a story and a poem in HERE THERE BE ANGELS using some of it.) But find it interesting that essentially it posits a very stupid angel!
Jane
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Nalo
Registered User
(6/28/05 6:59 pm)
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Re: Dybbuks and superstitions
I've always thought of it as evil being constrained by very specific
rules and contracts, like the devil in the Haitian Tipingee story
(I summarized it here: www.surlalunefairytales.com/boardarchives/2004/may2004/friendshipinft.html)
It's not that the devil is stupid; it's that he can only take one person, and it has to be the right person. If he can't ascertain who that is, he has to leave without her. And apparently he isn't allowed to try again, either. Wonder who writes the contracts that evil follows? Perversely enough, good sometimes seems to be a bit more tricksy and slippery.
Edited by Heidi to fix the link.
Edited by: Heidi Anne Heiner at: 6/29/05 2:49 pm
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janeyolen
Registered User
(6/29/05 6:25 am)
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Re: Dybbuks and superstitions
I certainly like the idea, Nalo, that good is "even more tricksy and slippery." Am trying (in my writer mind) to posit that universe! <G>
Jane
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Veronica
Schanoes
Registered User
(6/29/05 7:56 am)
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Re: Angel of Death
Partly because I don't understand the Angel of Death to be necessarily
evil, just death-bringing, I have always understood those traditions
as having to do with the stupidity of Death and the ability of human
beings to outsmart it, for a while at least, and I rather like that
interpretation. In my experience, death is stupid, and
the idea of outsmarting it jibes with the cultural traditions I
was brought up with (and told were Jewish, though I am positive
they are neither unique to certain Jewish cultures nor present in
all Jewish cultures), namely, that one should value intelligence
over almost anything else and think one's way out of bad situations.
In the context of continued persecution by others with greater physical
force and power, it makes sense to me that you'd develop a tradition
of outwitting death rather than fighting it.
On the other hand, the same can be said of humankind in general, given our lack of brute power compared to predators.
I got no problem with thinking of the Angel of Death as just being bound by certain rules, though. Just expanding on my own interpretation!
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AliceCEB
Registered User
(6/29/05 8:25 am)
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Re: Angel of Death
Thinking out loud: According to Jewish beliefs, between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, God transcribes the names of those who will will have a good year in the Book of Life and those who will have a dire year in the Book of Death. Could it be that since the Angel of Death is an emissary of God, and this emissary is guided by the Book of Death, insuring that your child is not in the book by mistake (by giving the child the wrong name) is, well, a sensible precaution? It wouldn't be that the Angel is stupid, but rather that the Angel might get confused.
As for the actions to avoid evil, perhaps they come down to not alerting the various demons and dybbuks that something is going on where they could cause mischief. (The idea that you are jinxing yourself if you say out loud that something is going well.)
I do like the idea, though, that angels and devils are governed by rules, and that humans do their best to trip up those rules to prevent evil.
Best,
Alice
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AliceCEB
Registered User
(6/29/05 8:42 am)
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Re: Angel of Death
Nalo, I can't seem to use your link--I think a parenthesis got stuck in it. Could you tell me when the discussion occurred so I can look it up?
Thanks!
Alice
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Heidi
Anne Heiner
ezOP
(6/29/05 2:50 pm)
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Re: Angel of Death
I edited the link to make it work.
HAH
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EllenKushner
Unregistered User
(6/29/05 5:38 pm)
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re: Angel of Death
The Yiddish name of the Angel of Death is the "(the/ha') Malach ha'Mavet" (sounds - sorta, esp. with a NY accent - like "(the) FALL off the CARpet!")
For further reading, I recommend the book LIFE IS WITH PEOPLE - from Nextbook.com:
<<Mark Zborowski and Elizabeth Herzog
Life is With People: The Culture of the Shtetl
Schocken, $16.00
This pioneering anthropological study affectionately details the daily routines that made a shtetl into a living, breathing community, full of passion, intellectual fervor, and joyous celebrations. Initially published in 1952 under the stewardship of Margaret Mead—the sister-in-law of Yiddish maven Leo Rosten—and Columbia University's Research in Contemporary Cultures Project, the authors sought to preserve the form, texture, and memories of a small-town way of life destroyed by World War II.
The world depicted is warm and loving, where a "'real' Jew is moderate,restrained, and intellectual," and parents strive to make mensches out of their children. Sentimental at times yet written with flair, Life is With People vividly recalls a time when the greatest compliment shtetl residents could pay a Gentile was: "He has a Jewish head.">>
I can't promise you that it has Angel of Death material, but I bet it does. It's a swell read, anyway.
From www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
I get:
'The close association between the name and the person led to the common belief that changing a name would prevent the evil spirit from harming the person. If the name were changed, the evil spirit would not recognize the person. This belief is embodied in the Talmud (Rosh Hashanah 16b): "Four things can abrogate the decree of man and they are: charity, supplication, change of name and change of action."
'These superstitions carried over in Eastern Europe to the naming of children. In Poland, for example, when several people have died in a family, a newborn child is given a name that is never uttered, so as not to give the evil spirit any opportunity. Often, a nickname was given to the child, such as "Alte" (Old One), Chaim (Life), or Zaida (Grandfather). This was a way of deceiving the angel of death. A similar practice was adopted for the extremely ill.'
and also (use their in-site SEARCH function for many such goodies):
'The rabbis taught again: "When there is a pestilence in town, a person shall not walk in the middle of the road; for so long as the Angel of Death has received his permission to rage, he does so high-handed. On the contrary, when peace reigns, one must not walk on the sideways; for so long as he has not the permission, he hides himself away."'
and:
'it may be said that [studying Torah] relieves from the Angel of Death; as it happened with Rabbi Hisda, who was studying continuously, so that the Angel of Death could not come near him until he caused the cedar in the yard of the college to break, the noise of which stopped his studying, and the Angel of Death took hold of him. '
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EllenKushner
Unregistered User
(6/29/05 5:43 pm)
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Angel of Death
My new favorite website for Jewish cultural/folk info, which every SurLaLunatic interested in same should bookmark!!!, has a whole page on "Angel of Death in Folklore":
www.jhom.com/topics/angel...h_folk.htm
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EllenKushner
Unregistered User
(6/29/05 5:48 pm)
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new names
. . . search within their site for "Angel of Death" and you'll be rewarded with many references, including the article "Your Name Shall No Longer be called Sidney but Chaim," about "the War with the Spirits":
www.jhom.com/topics/topsy...names.html
'Moses of Coucy plainly explained that the one who changes his name as much as declares to the angel looking for him, "I am not the person you are seeking, I am not the one who committed the sins you charge me with." And, of course, the angel takes him at his word. [....] Interestingly enough, the very same course is followed on the opposite side of the earth, in Borneo and the Kingsmill Islands.' !!
Ya gotta love it. The whole site is full of such gems - I wish I'd had it while I was writing "Sound & Spirit", and am planning to link to lots of its articles now on our website.
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EllenKushner
Unregistered User
(6/29/05 8:48 pm)
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that pesky angel
OOPS!
I know Hebrew better than Yiddish.
The correct(er) spelling/pronounciation of the Yiddish is:
malekh hamoves
(MA-lech haMAWHvess - or MAWHvez, depending on where you're from....)
OK, enough of this mishegass . . . back to work!
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KathieRose
Unregistered User
(6/30/05 6:55 pm)
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Angel of Death
Thanks for the interesting links, Ellen. I'm intrigued: is the Angel of Death ALWAYS seen as a negative figure? In the dream I've been trying to adequately interpret for years, the angel was not negative, more of a kind companion--- but the main figure in the dream was a psychotic serial killer who once witnessed the angel's appearance at a natural death and then started killing people to 'make the angel come again'. [Yeah, I know, weird dream-- but hey, I'm a Jungian
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Dark Siren
Unregistered User
(7/1/05 2:57 pm)
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Angel of Death
I don't think it's always a negative figure,unless you are angry or grieving - wihich makes perfect sense to me.In "Charmed",Prue blamed the Angel for her mother's death - and possibly Andy's,I can't remember - and until she realised he was just following the line of Fate,she hated him.But he was always very nuteral,very "I have no part in this,I'm just an observer and a guide."
Though one of the things I'm fiddling about with at the moment(and
it might be published one day,who knows - if I get copyright permish)is
Angel from Buffy being known as the Angel of Death,thanks to his
actions as Angelus.(Also,strangely enough,inspired by a dream,so
Kathie - you're not alone! :D )And then his daughter Millie is the
Angel of Vengence,her daughter Angel the Angel of Judgement,her
adopted daughter Ebony is the Angel of Mercy,and her daughter Cruz
- which is "cross" in Spanish,so kinda fitting,I thought<pronounced
"cruise"> - is simply Cruz(and her dad the Spanish
vamp Miguel! :eek Very Antonio Banderas in "Interview With
The Vampire" - the names Cruise and Cruz are coinsidences).
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redwill0w
Registered User
(7/17/05 11:08 pm)
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Re: Angel of Death
My personal sense is that the Angel of Death can be very delicate, very precise, very discrete, polished, cultured. At least this was my feeling when close to this via the passing of someone important to me. This may be imagination on my part, or not. I felt that this one does not get many thanks, yet sometimes thanks are due, which he will gravely accept, no pun intended. Perhaps there are different angels or spirits involved in great and terrible tragedies that sweep many souls up at once, like the tsunami of Dec. 26 last year. Perhaps this spirit approaches each human differently. So many mysteries!
Dara
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midori
snyder
Registered User
(7/18/05 4:51 pm)
ezSupporter
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Re: Angel of Death
Veronica,
There was an interesting discussion a while back...it's archived here
www.surlalunefairytales.com/boardarchives/2001/may2001/godfathermother_page1.html
on Godfather/Godmother Death. I remembered it because I referenced
a really excellent book (relatively recent then) Karl Guthke's The
Gender of Death: A Cultural History in Art and Literature.
The study is fascinating because it studies the different cultural
forms death takes--some loving and benign, others quite dark and
terrifying. There's a nice comprehensive review of the book here
if you're interested:
www.rc.umd.edu/reviews/back/guthke.html
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