|
Author
|
Comment
|
dlee10
Registered User
(1/12/05 9:03 pm)
|
Johnathan Strange and Mr. Norell
I read J. Strange and Mr. Norrell for a book group and a number of us found the man with the thistledown hair and his stealing of Lady Powel by taking her finger to be very familiar. Would anyone know if this is a plot from an older fairytale? Thank you.
|
Black Sheep
Registered User
(1/13/05 10:37 am)
|
Re: Johnathan Strange and Mr. Norell
Dlee could you tell us more about the "thistledown hair" and describe "taking her finger" in detail? Some of the people on here who've read lots of older tales won't have got around to S & N yet.
|
Veronica Schanoes
Registered User
(1/13/05 2:25 pm)
|
Re: Johnathan Strange and Mr. Norell
I believe that the fairy's name is John Hollyoaks, isn't it? That's a traditional fairy name, I think. I know I've read it in a fairy midwife retelling...
|
dlee10
Registered User
(1/13/05 2:28 pm)
|
J. Strange
I will try to be brief! The man with the thistledown hair was never given a name. He was a very powerful fairy who was summoned by Mr. Norrell (a magician) when Lady P. suddenly died. Mr. Norrell made a deal that the man with the thistledown hair could have half her life if he would bring her back to life. Of course one should never make a deal with fairies. The man took one of Lady P's fingers as a token and kept it in a little gold box. While Lady P. appeared alive she lost all vitality due to the fact that she was dancing all night in the Man with the thistledown hair's mansion. (A very seedy hole in the ground once the glamor was removed) The "spell" was lifted when Lady P's finger was returned to her. The thistledown hair seemed to remind me of an old fairy tale but I just can't place it. This was a small part of a lenghthy book. Thank you for answering me. I love fairy tales and am quite a little lurker here!
|
Veronica Schanoes
Registered User
(1/13/05 4:16 pm)
|
Re: J. Strange
Are you sure he's never given a name? I could swear he was named once. I'll go back and look.
|
dlee10
Registered User
(1/13/05 5:26 pm)
|
Re: J. Strange
At one point I thought he might actually be the Raven King but he is not. I don't believe he ever had a name, just the discription. The Raven King had many names, none of them his real one.
|
Black Sheep
Registered User
(1/13/05 5:56 pm)
|
Re: J. Strange
In the symbolic language of plants dandelion clocks and clematis seeds aka old man's beard are symbols of time. Time for we humans is an ally of death which may be relevant in this instance. Unless thistledown has an alternative meaning? Sleep perhaps? Which would give the unbeatable trio of time, sleep and death.
Fingers are fetish items in many magical traditions. Too many to detail. The soul-theft and night-dancing are also both recurrent themes in folk and fairy tales. Perhaps someone else will think of a more specific example? The unglamourous fairy den is in many folk tales and songs (often abduction and/or midwife/birth tales).
|
Black Sheep
Registered User
(1/13/05 6:23 pm)
|
Re: J. Strange
And then I thought of this by Ernest Seton:
www.faerylands.org/faerie...yland.html
|
dlee10
Registered User
(1/14/05 8:09 am)
|
Re: J. Strange
I have read that poem long ago in high school. Perhaps my memory of thistledown is rooted there. The story just felt so familiar but many of the elements are probably lifted from a myriad of other tales. I was hoping someone would remember one specific story. Thank you so much for all your help and interest. I will go back to lurking now!
|
Terri Windling
Registered User
(1/14/05 10:15 am)
|
Re: J. Strange
Fairies are described as having thistledown hair in numerous tales, and it is also common in the fairy lore of Britain for fairies to enchant and capture mortals who take their fancy (as the gentleman with thistledown hair does in this book).
Cut-off fingers also appear in a wide variety of folk tales and fairy tales. There are several variants of a story in which a girl must cut off her own finger in order to use it as a key to unlock a door, behind which her brothers have been imprisoned.
Susanna is widely versed in fairy tales and folklore, and although she doesn't base her novel on any single fairy tale, the book is filled with fairy tale motifs used in fascinating ways. I highly, highly recommend it to everyone here -- it's an absolutely terrific book. I've read it twice now, and will no doubt read it many times more over the years...
|
