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Author
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Comment
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Black Sheep
Registered User
(2/6/05 1:56 pm)
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Good Food Guide
I'm interested in the theme of food in folk and fairy tales. I've been meaning to post this for a while and Hedy's Kate Crackernut thread reminded me. It also might compliment Kristiw's Insatiable Woman thread.
Food in folk and fairy tales is often dangerous or taboo in some way. I can't think of nearly as many tales in which food is a Good Thing and normal eating is encouraged.
All suggestions, of tales or reasons why, gratefully received.
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evil little pixie
Registered User
(2/6/05 3:44 pm)
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Re: Good Food Guide
In "Diamonds and Toads" food is a good thing- the virtuous sister is rewarded for sharing her food with the old beggar woman. Although I guess the food is less important than the generosity . . .
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Random
Registered User
(2/6/05 5:30 pm)
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Re: Good Food Guide
(1/7/05 5:29 pm)
Re: The Bogeyman
In "Vasilissa the Fair", she has a doll which, once fed, gives her advice and help, though it's hard to say if this really encourages healthy eating as such, since I think that meant she did without.
Hansel and Gretel were driven out for lack of food, and though I suppose that the gingerbread house thing wasn't so lucky for them, the jewels etc. that they got from the house enabled them to go home and not starve anymore.
There are various stories that require someone who is able to eat a town's worth of bread (and drink an equal amount of wine/water) in order for the main character to win the King's favour or whatnot. Again, not necessarily healthy, but the ability to eat is shown as a good thing and is not punished.
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Erica Carlson
Registered User
(2/6/05 6:12 pm)
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Re: Re: Good Food Guide(1/7/05 5:29 pm)Re: The Bogeyman
The culture or folk group from which the tales come may have something to do with how & how much food shows up in folktales. I say that because more than one person has told me that Italian folktales tend to have a lot of food in them. I've just started reading the Italian tales, so I'm not even an amateur expert, but there IS a lot of food in those I've read so far. Also, I was at a storytelling this past week and the teller told an Italian tale (I haven't figured out the name of it yet) where the daughter of the sun uses culinary skills to put off the wedding of her own true love and other women...
Orality is a big deal in folktales, though, so this is an intriguing topic...must think more on it.
E.
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Crceres
Registered User
(2/6/05 6:25 pm)
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Food stories
Food shows up a lot in stories about 'sillies', where food provides a situation to show off how silly a person can be. The husband and wife trading jobs (and the husband making a total mess of the kitchen); the fool who sends one round cheese down the hill to retrieve the one which already rolled off. Then there's Stone Soup and Clever Liza, where the cook tricks the other characters.
Not to mention all the poisoned drinks and apples...
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kristiw
Unregistered User
(2/6/05 6:29 pm)
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fairy food
An idea I've been playing around with is the inability of fairy food to nourish humans, and vice versa-- people who return from the Otherworld tend to be pinched and starved. Similarly, changelings in human households fail to thrive on human food, and while this is often portrayed as deliberate caprice to drain the family's resources, part of the fairy's abuse, the parallel is interesting.
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AliceCEB
Registered User
(2/6/05 6:38 pm)
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Re: Re: Good Food Guide(1/7/05 5:29 pm)Re: The Bogeyman
Hmm. I've always thought that eating large amounts of food was a symbol of plenty or wealth because lack of food was a marker for poverty. In Puss in Boots, one of Puss' claims to his master's wealth is the ample nature of his table. By contrast, Jack (of beanstalk fame) must sell the family cow because they have no food to eat.
The stories that immediately comes to mind of large food consumption are Gargantua and Pantagruel where eating is part of the humor, and the quantities consumed are a symbol of the size and wealth of the heros. There Rabelais seems to revel in describing each item of food--books best not read on an empty stomach.:)
Best,
Alice
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Anansia
Registered User
(2/6/05 6:45 pm)
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Re: Good Food Guide
The Ananse spider stories I've mentioned on another thread seem to feature food quite a bit - related to the theme of greed. e.g. Ananse fakes his own death so he can be buried under the yam field and feast every night; or he schemes as to how he can attend all the four feasts he's been invited to.
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Veronica Schanoes
Registered User
(2/7/05 6:39 am)
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Re: Good Food Guide
There's also the story about the magic pasta/porridge/whatever pot that won't stop cooking. I know it through Strega Nona, but I've seen the plot used so often that I imagine it must come from folklore somewhere.
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Black Sheep
Registered User
(2/7/05 11:42 am)
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Re: Good Food Guide
E.L.Pixie: Generosity towards needy folk or animals is definitely a tale theme but I think you're right that it's the generosity which matters because forms of assistance other than food are often accepted/rewarded... but I'm sure there's more here worth considering... anyone?
Random: I tend to think that food in Hansel and Gretel is taboo and the kids win through despite breaking the taboo rather than because breaking the taboo was a Good Thing... unless someone has another version?
Could you name a few eat-a-ton stories? The only positive overeating stories I can think of at the moment are mythological.
Erica: Cultural? Yes! It occurred to me last night that, despite many foods being taboo in Judaism, Jewish cultures usually have a healthy attitude towards food/eating which is reflected in their folktales. The same attitude also feeds into (pun) the Christian myths in the new testament where, except during a set period of fasting (as in Judaism), food/eating is healthy and communal, e.g. the family meals such as the wedding at Cana, e.g. feeding the five thousand with loaves and fishes, e.g. the last supper, etc.
Could you suggest a few specific Italian stories as you find them? (It occurs to me that protestants have often emphasised fasting while catholics have a positive attitude towards feasting).
The other suggestions are interesting too, especially the specific named stories, please keep them coming...
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Jess
Unregistered User
(2/7/05 2:13 pm)
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And don't forget that food that looks good is also important
Remeber the tale of the golden apple? Snow White? Adam and Eve? (apples mostly here, but the point is that the visual aspect of food is as important in fairy tales, folklore, myths, etc. as the taste).
I was admonished a few years back that "Strega Nona" is a Tomi dePaola creation. I would love to know if there is another cooking pot story. If not, he has indeed created his own special brand of folklore that will certainly out live him.
Many famous stories, like Orfeo, take place at celebrations or feasts. The combination of good food, music and excess often lead to carelessness in stories, which in turn create the conflict.
In rereading the Illiad and Odessey a few years back, I was struck by the immense amount of detail in the food scenes. So too, much of the Tales of the Arabian Nights center around details of dinners or the preservation of food.
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gigi
Unregistered User
(2/7/05 3:07 pm)
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Food
Also there is a scandinavian tale Called somthing like "the golden ship" or "the Flying SHip"
It involves the hero picking up hungry companions on his journeys. They win a princess by being able to eat all the immense amounts of wine/bread/honey. Then The companions are cured of their ravenous hunger and the hero marries the princess and happy ending :)
I love your topic.
Also A lot of folktale endings describe the wedding of the hero and the princess about how the feasting went on for so many days and how they wanted for nothing ever again.
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aka Greensleeves
Registered User
(2/7/05 3:19 pm)
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Re: Food
Among the Vikings (and likely other Norse and Celtic contemporaries) a hearty appetite (for everything) was a sign of good manners, and part of how one showed gratitude and honor to one's host or patron. You did not refuse a gift, and you kept eating and drinking until all the food was gone (and this in a world where one of the delicacies was fermented whey--yummy! :rolleyes ). Ale was served in drinking horns--the hollowed out horn of a bull, which could not be set down full without spilling. It was either passed round until emptied, or the bearer was expected to empty it himself (usually in one draught). Many of the Viking tales (Eddic tales and sagas) feature scenes of such indulgence.
Edited by: aka Greensleeves at: 2/7/05 3:21 pm
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Random
Registered User
(2/7/05 5:52 pm)
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Re: Good Food Guide
Another story which involves food at least somewhat is the Grimms' "The Wishing-Table, the Gold-Ass, and the Cudgel in the Sack", where the table which covers itself in food is considered to be a great treasure. It's not really the main focus of the story, though.
As far as those eat-a-ton stories are concerned, I have trouble thinking of specific examples, but one such fairytale would be Madame d'Aulnoy's "Belle-Belle; Or, the Chevalier Fortuné", in which one of the main character's companions devours all the bread in the city in response to an emperor's demands. "The Flying Ship", from Andrew Lang's Yellow Fairy Book also fits the bill (and has a link!), and has already been described by gigi. I could have sworn that I'd read another one recently, but I can't think of the details, so that's no help. Suffice to say, it was much like the previous two mentioned.
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Black Sheep
Registered User
(2/7/05 8:17 pm)
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Good Food Guide
Alice (needed to think about yours): Yes food as a symbol of prosperity but perhaps more as public display than for consumption unless the theme is greed? (but also see Gigi below...)
Gigi: Excellent point about happy ever after tales ending in feasting. I hadn't considered that and it's _so_ obvious now you've said it!
Overeating stories: Hmm... not really a Good Thing... although it might sound good to anyone who often went hungry (Jess' descriptions of food too)... tough call... so many of the tales are mythic and tricksy.
I laughed just from Anansia's reminder of Ananse wanting to be buried with the yams (trickster), and Greensleeves you're right cos one of the first overeating stories I recalled was Loki failing to out eat Wildfire and Thor quaffing the sea (tricked), also Sekhmet failed to destory the world only because She was tricked into drinking beer which She believed was blood and She become drunk and then fell asleep (which I suppose was a Good Thing).
And onto unhealthy overindulgence of all kinds including drunkenness. Obatala created some humans but then She celebrated Her success by drinking palm wine and, while She was drunk, She accidentally made disabled people and mentally ill people. When She woke up with a hangover She realised Her responsibility for the additional difficulties of some of Her children and asked for them to receive especial care.
My cup runneth over: Veronica isn't there an overflowing something in the sorcerer's apprentice too? And the northern tale of the two giantesses who ever grind out more and more salt... which is why the sea is saltwater.
And the always laid table, like the ever-full cauldrons in celtic/northern/grail myth etc, and ever full purses, and the goat etc which can be eaten over and over again...
Off to reread the tales in Random's links...
But I'm still looking for stories, like Kate Crackernuts, where food is both a Good Thing and an essential plot device?
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Jess
Unregistered User
(2/7/05 11:02 pm)
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The girl that trod on a loaf?
Maybe this is the story that you are looking for?
Jess
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janeyolen
Registered User
(2/8/05 3:50 am)
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Re: The girl that trod on a loaf?
Tomie based his "cooking pot" story on the "Mill That Ground Salt" and their varients. But his STREGA NONA is an original tale.
And of course there are also stories, like the Scandavian one, in which either a tablecloth spread or a special pot is everlasting.
See also Horn of Plenty.
And the Celtic cauldron of plenty.
Jane
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Black Sheep
Registered User
(2/9/05 11:48 am)
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Still mulling...
Thanks Jane.
I'm coming to the conclusion that the reason I can't find tales to satisfy my criteria is because there are some additional invisible criteria in my mind which I'm not consciously aware of but which are affecting my attitude to particular tales.
Maybe if I work out why I like Kate Crackernut so much that'll give me some idea of what I'm really looking for.
I suppose the flying ship comes the closest to it so far and some of the Jewish and new testament stories.
Maybe I'm looking for community + good food? I don't know. This discussion has helped me think from some new angles though. Ta all.
E.L.Pixie re your question about vagina dentata on the insatiable woman thread: dentata means teeth... work it out for yourself.
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Otherworld
Registered User
(2/13/05 5:32 pm)
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Re: Still mulling...
there are some tales where the food is a character in the story. there is a Scottish one about a bannock [ a large biscuit made from oatmeal that decides to run away so it will not be eaten and all the folk that try to trick it in to let them eat it. I have it somewhere. will look it out
interesting topic
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Heidi Anne Heiner
ezOP
(2/13/05 9:37 pm)
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Re: Still mulling...
And here it is: The Wee Bannock.
Heidi
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Black Sheep
Registered User
(2/14/05 3:44 pm)
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Re: Still mulling...
Thank you Otherworld. I hadn't really considered food as a Good/heroic character in its own right but the minute you said it I remembered the northern English legend of the dragon who is eating people and is brought to a sticky end by a cunningly deployed parkin.
For those of you lucky enough not to have been fed parking by northerners (who _claim_ it's edible!) I can only describe it as like a mixture of ginger cake and quick setting concrete.
There's a distinct lack of "parkin of mass destruction" tales on the web but I found a brief summary here:
www.cornes1.fsnet.co.uk/filey.htm
Ta for the link Heidi.
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