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Author
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Comment
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Elizabeth Genco
Registered User
(2/23/05 9:17 pm)
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Fairies and tithes
So, I've been noodling around with ideas this evening, trying to flesh out a story. I'm rather stumped by one of my brain's random questions; perhaps someone here knows the answer.
One standard element of fairy lore is the idea of a tithe, usually a sacrifice of a human. The classic example, of course, is Tam Lin -- the fairies have "a tithe to hell" that they must pay every seven years.
What happens to the fairies if they don't pay that tithe?
I could be drawing a complete blank (it wouldn't be the first time!), but as of this moment, I can't think of any repercussions. And there *must* be some, right?
I'm sure there's an answer for this, and it's probably in my brain somewhere, even, just not at the tippy-top...
Anyone?
---
What's that fiddle player in the subway thinking
about?
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janeyolen
Registered User
(2/24/05 4:44 am)
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Re: Fairies and tithes
Part of the answer to that is in my new YA novel (written with son Adam Stemple) PAY THE PIPER , out from Tor this summer! <Healthy plug.>
Jane
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Terri Windling
Registered User
(2/24/05 7:50 am)
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Re: Fairies and tithes
If the fairies don't present a human tithe, then they have to pay with one of their own. Perhaps the devil takes his pick...?
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AliceCEB
Registered User
(2/24/05 8:08 am)
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Re: Fairies and tithes
Then, that begs the question. Why the tithe to devil in the first place?
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Veronica Schanoes
Registered User
(2/24/05 8:30 am)
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Re: Fairies and tithes
My guess would be that that was a post-Christian addition to fairylore, in that since fairies are magical creatures without souls, they must be in the pay of the devil
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Elizabeth Genco
Registered User
(2/24/05 9:45 am)
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Re: Fairies and titles
Jane, the title of your book alone makes me want to pick it up.
Indeed, paying with one of their own makes the most sense. Lots of directions in which one could run with this. *cackle*
Thanks!
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Black Sheep
Registered User
(2/24/05 11:17 am)
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Re: Fairies and tithes
In Christian fairy lore the fairies are either:
(1) the children which Eve hid from Yahweh because she was embarassed at the evidence that she and Adam had been, ahem, "getting along well" very frequently. As a punishment for Eve's lies Yahweh cursed her unadmitted children to be soulless creatures trapped between heaven and hell till judgment day (when they can be assumed to be hell-bound for all eternity).
Or (2) ex-angels who left heaven for earth and refused to take sides in the war between Yahweh and the ex-angel Satan. Christian devils are supposed to be ex-angels who sided with Satan. In this version the fairies will be judged by Yahweh on judgment day and, if his biblical temper is anything to go by, they will be found guilty and sent to hell as subjects of Satan for all eternity.
In case no. 1 then the Christian Devil is merely claiming his own a little previously.
In case no. 2 the fairies are paying ransom for their continued neutrality.
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Black Sheep
Registered User
(2/25/05 9:05 am)
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Re: Fairies and tithes
I had a few more thoughts about this.
If we're specifically referring to early modern Scottish highland fairy lore then the idea that in case no. 2 (above) the tithed person is a straightforward sacrifice to the Christian hell seems culturally unlikely and I'd suggest that the tithed person is either: a hostage held to ensure the fairies continued neutrality in the conflict between Jehovah and Satan; or a feudal tithe by the fairies to their supposed eventual feudal overlord Satan of persons fit to work/fight for him.
Hostage taking (sometimes disguised as fostering) and labour tithes were common in the violent and extremely feudal highland culture long after those customs had been discontinued in lowland Scotland.
Which makes me wonder if any of those persons tithed to hell ever returned? There are many cases in Christian folklore and fairytales where someone completes their bargain with the/a Devil/devil, or their term in hell, and then returns, more or less intact, to earth. So I wonder if the near-immortal but soulless fairies who're tithed to hell ever return to fairyland? Not that we mere humans would know if they did...
Edit: So the repercussions of not paying the tithe would be the same as those of not paying any other feudal tithe to one's overlord.
Edited by: Black Sheep at: 2/25/05 9:08 am
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Terri Windling
Registered User
(2/25/05 1:27 pm)
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Re: Fairies and tithes
Elizabeth, I've read versions of Tam Lin and other folktales/ballads in which it is made clear that if a human tithe isn't paid, then a fairy will have to be the tithe...and that this is considered particularly terrible by the fairies because they are otherwise immortal...or at very least have very long lives. Whereas human lives are short, so why should they care if a human's life is shortened a little further?
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Erica Carlson
Registered User
(2/25/05 4:35 pm)
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Re: Fairies and tithes
Indentured servitude in hell--now that sounds like quite the story!
Elizabeth Marie Pope's The Perilous Gard was my introduction to Tam Lin, and there (if my memory serves), failure to pay the tithe severs the ties of the "fair folk" from their holy places/strongholds. I'm not sure how this might work in tales other than Tam Lin, and I'm not espousing it as a part of the folklore of tithing, but the theory links nicely with the struggle for place that occurs in some versions of the ballad between Janet, who claims Carterhaugh (or whatever you choose to call it) as her own, and the Fairies, who also seem to have a claim on it by haunting it or having Tam Lin haunt it.
Best,
Erica
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Terri Windling
Registered User
(2/26/05 7:21 am)
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Re: Fairies and tithes
The Perilous Gard is a fabulous version of Tam Lin.
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darklingthrush
Registered User
(2/26/05 10:29 am)
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Re: Fairies and tithes
The very title of this discussion begs me to wonder if anyone has read Holly Black's superb YA novel Tithe. I'm not sure if the book ever gets to the why and wherefore of the tithe but it certainly has the main character trying to prevent a friend from becoming one. The idea of the tithe always did seem a bit tacked on in Tam Lin at least. I guess I never questioned it though and took it at face value. "oh why yes of course they must have a human tithe" *naively nodding head without really thinking of why they need a tithe or what the ramifications of not having one would be.
All of the above responses seem logical though...and perhaps all work depending on how the tribe of fairy interprets it. In Dean's Tam Lin in almost seemed like the addition of humans was less of a tithe and more of a way of building a court of admirers around the queen. But then again I could be remembering this wrong. Its been awhile since I've read it. Now that this topic has been mentioned I must admit I'm a bit perplexed and obsessed as well.
Edited by: darklingthrush at: 2/26/05 10:34 am
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Erica Carlson
Registered User
(2/26/05 10:45 am)
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Re: Fairies and tithes
I love that book (Perilous Gard). I can remember reading it for the first time in small town MT (in autumn, which was good timing) and being very excited about it. It inspired months of juvenile scrawlings and stories.
Edited by: Erica Carlson at: 2/26/05 11:07 am
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Elizabeth Genco
Registered User
(2/26/05 11:03 am)
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Re: Fairies and tithes
Tons of great stuff here. Thanks, everybody. The gears in my mind turn, turn, turn...
I'd not heard of The PERILOUS GARD before now. Into the Amazon.com shopping cart it goes.
I have indeed read TITHE. I can't remember offhand how she deals with this question, or if she addresses it at all. It's a fabulous book; I'm due for a re-read.
Regarding fairies and immortality, there's another question that came to mind that I'm pretty sure we discussed on this board recently -- that of fairies who want to become mortals. Why would they? Are there stories that deal with this? I'll poke around in the archives now, but if anyone remembers when we talked about this and can find the link offhand, I'd really appreciate it.
(Or maybe I'm imagining things and we didn't talk about it at all, in which case perhaps I'll start a new thread!)
---
What's that fiddle player in the subway thinking
about?
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Black Sheep
Registered User
(2/26/05 2:28 pm)
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Re: Fairies and tithes
There are lots of stories of fairies who want to be mortals for a variety of reasons, e.g. the little mermaid for love, but the weirdest IMO is because they want a soul of their own.
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