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shizzaro
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(12/4/05 6:28 pm)
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Looking for opinions on what beauty & the beast teaches
Here are some examples:
It teachs young women that they are property owned by their fathers (inanimate objects) to be sold or traded.
Women are responsible to change the men and take care of them.
This fairy tales also shows that women are to get married...
I just want some more opinions
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Veronica Schanoes
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(12/4/05 6:53 pm)
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Beauty and the Beast
I think it depends on the version of Beauty and the Beast you mean. The version I was brought up with involved a beast who was monstrous to look at but was unfailingly kind, courteous, and thoughtful, and I always understood the message of that version to be that it is one's heart, rather than one's appearence, that matters most.
The most popular version now, of course, is very different, and so was the original tale, I believe.
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shizzaro
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(12/4/05 7:18 pm)
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Beauty and the Beast
I'm working on an essay. I'm talking about how the fairy tales at different stages in Jeanette's Life "Oranges are not the Only Fruit" by Jeanette Winterson. Even if you haven't read the book you can still have your own opinion.
Quote from the book.
"In this story, a beautiful young woman finds herself the forfeit of a bad bargin made by her father. As a result, she has to marry an ugly beast, or dishonour her family forever. Because she is good, she obeys. On her wedding night, she gets into bed with the beast, and feeling pity that everything should be so ugly, gives it a little kiss. Immediatly, the beast is trasnformed into a handsom young prince, and they both live happily ever after."
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gigi
Unregistered User
(12/4/05 7:38 pm)
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b and b
well,
I always thought B and B was to teach the importance of the inner person... the beauty inside of all of us...
When I started reading the traditional folktales and fairytales I learned it was to not fear the arranged marriage...
after he is ugly and all but really turns out to be gentle and kind
hope it helps
gigi
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shizzaro
Registered
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(12/4/05 8:10 pm)
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Beauty and the Beast
Hey Thanks!
I like what you guys have said.
I found this website that actually show how the fairy tales affected Jeanette's life... Its really interesting.
www.sparknotes.com/lit/oranges/
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Northerner4me
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(12/5/05 7:00 am)
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Re: Beauty and the Beast
I've always taken it to mean that outward appearances are not as important as what is inside a person.
I'm reading "The Swan and the Hunchback" and the moment and I find pretty much the same moral there, with the interesting thought that the "beast" in that tale, the "ugly one" is in fact the human.
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LadyErmine
Unregistered User
(12/6/05 5:39 am)
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Beauty and the Beast
Hi - although it is a daughter who is handed over in this particular story, parents also bargain away their sons in some fairy tales - which suggests that children - both male and female - are seen as the property of their parents. And Beauty does volunteer, while her sisters refuse - there is an element of choice, and even a suggestion that if he can't get a volunteer the father will just have to go back and give himself up.
It may well be that this story, and others involving marriages to frogs, bears etc contained reasurance to girls about marriage - he may look frightening, and alien, but don't worry, he'll be kind, and you'll get your own house... which, after all, was not a bad message ... it also reminds the men that kindness will help a lot...
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midori
snyder
Registered
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(12/6/05 5:40 am)
ezSupporter
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Re: Beauty and the Beast
I guess I have a different take on the story altogether. It's not so much about the Beast, but the Beauty. There are plenty of stories about young women, in that perilous moment of their rite of passage to adulthood who find themselves married to mysterious beasts. And while it's true, if one acts appropriately, the Beast is kind and courteous, generous...there is always the threat of the Beast. Even in B+B he leaves her at night to hunt. In a South African narrative she is married off to a huge snake who lives in the rafters of a hut...but the young woman is courteous, serves the food properly and the snake sheds his skin to reveal a beautiful man. There are both Native American and Scandanavian stories of a girl who is married to a bear and must go through another series of tasks to liberate the young man from this spell.
So I think the story is really about the young woman, the genuine fear of exogamous marriage, and her own courage to transform herself from adolescent to bride as well as be the agent of transformation for her husband.
Terri Windling has an excellent article on the Endicott
Studio
on Beauty
and the Beast
that you might find
useful.
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shizzaro
Registered
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(12/6/05 12:45 pm)
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Beauty and the Beast
Thank you very much! That was a very good article, I've tried looking in search engines but I must have missed it!
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avalondeb
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(12/14/05 5:09 pm)
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Re: Beauty and the Beast
The lesson I always thought it taught was in line with arranged marriages. How even the worst marriages can work out. I think it is amazing that the story of Psyche and Cupid is so similiar to B&B, down to the evil sisters!
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Rosemary Lake
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(12/14/05 6:42 pm)
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which original tale?
[[ I think it depends on the version of Beauty and the Beast you mean. The version I was brought up with involved a beast who was monstrous to look at but was unfailingly kind, courteous, and thoughtful, and I always understood the message of that version to be that it is one's heart, rather than one's appearence, that matters most.
The most popular version now, of course, is very different, and so was the original tale, I believe. ]]
I suppose the popular version now is Disney's, which is quite different (and loses a good message imo). But which original tale is also different? Do you mean animal bridegroom tales (or unseen bridegroom as in 'Cupid and Psyche') where the groom turns out to be a handsome human man all the time, at least in private?
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Veronica Schanoes
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(12/14/05 6:47 pm)
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Re: which original tale?
I didn't grow up with any of the original versions, the conte de fee or the Cupid and Psyche tale--I'm just remembering the versions that I read growing up, which I suppose were a couple of picture books and the Cocteau movie. Or, actually, it's more likely that I grew up with the version in Lang's Fairy books. Those are what I read incessantly as a child.
Edited by: Veronica Schanoes at: 12/14/05 6:56 pm
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Terri Windling
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(12/15/05 2:52 am)
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Re: which original tale?
While I agree with Midori's comments on animal bridegroom tales in general, I also agree with Veronica and Rosemary that the "message" of Beauty & the Beast depends entirely on which version you're looking at. The original French story by de Villenueve, published for adult readers? Leprince de Beaumont's version, in which she re-wrote de Villeneuve's story for young English women? The recent, American Disney version?
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Shizarro: here's some additional info on the tale, taken from an article I published a few years ago. (I can't direct you to the article itself as it was only published in French):
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. . . By the middle of the 18th century a “third wave” of French fairy tales emerged by writers who had more in common with the 17th century salonnières than with the parodists who succeeded them. Gabrielle-Suzanne Barbot de Villeneuve was associated with the parodists (she’s believed to have been the mistress of Claude-Prosper de Crébillon fils), but de Villeneuve used the fairy tale form in a manner that harked back to the 1690s, penning stories that explored the role of women in marriage and society. In her youth, de Villeneuve had been unhappily married to a military officer, turning to writing to earn a living when his death left her impoverished. Her best known fairy tale is Beauty and the Beast (1740), a long, complex, and subtly erotic story exploring issues of love, marriage, and identity. The tale was later shortened and popularized by Madame Leprince de Beaumont. . . .
. . . The salon authors, as discussed above, composed their tales for an adult readership – but in the second half of the 18th century a new idea began to take root of shaping fairy tales specifically for younger readers. Creating a separate body of fiction for children was a relatively new notion, engendered by new printing methods and the rise of literacy in the upper classes. Prior works for children were dull and didactic, intended to inculcate moral values. It now occurred to liberal-minded parents and children’s educators that these values would be easier to swallow if sugar-coated with entertainment. Madame Leprince de Beaumont was one of the first French writers to compose fairy tales specifically for younger readers. Having fled from a disastrous marriage to a dissolute libertine, Leprince de Beaumont worked as a governess in England, where she began to write stories, in French, for magazines aimed at “young misses”. Although a number of her fairy stories contain original elements, she also borrowed liberally from previous fairy tale writers. In 1757, she re-wrote the text of de Villeneuve’s Beauty and the Beast, severely condensing the narrative and imbuing it with clear moral lessons. The resulting tale is the version that most people know today. De Villenueve’s text, over 300 pages long, was thick with incidental characters and rambling subplots. Leprince de Beaumont stripped these away to reach the bare, timeless essentials of the tale, condensing de Villenueve’s narrative into a mere 17 pages. She also made some significant changes. First, she toned down the eroticism: in the de Villeneuve version, the Beast repeatedly asks Belle to go to bed with him, while in the Leprince de Beaumont version, he merely asks her to marry him. Second, Leprince de Beaumont’s Beast is sympathetic, even attractive, before his transformation – while in de Villenueve’s story (similar to “animal bridegroom” tales from the oral tradition) the Beast is a genuinely frightening character.
* * *
And here's additional info from an article on Animal Bride and Bridegroom
tales (which can be found in its entirety here: www.endicott-studio.com/rdrm/rrMarriedToMagic.html
)
. . . In the 18th century, another French woman, Gabrielle–Suzanne de Villeneuve, borrowed from the Animal Bridegroom tradition to create an original fairy tale that would become one of the best loved of all time: Beauty and the Beast. Villeneuve's original narrative is over one hundred pages long, and is somewhat different in theme than the shorter version we know today. As Villeneuve's story begins, Beauty's destiny lies in the hands of her father, who gives her over to the Beast (to save his own life) and thus seals her fate. The Beast is a truly fiercesome figure, not a gentle soul disguised by fur — a creature lost to the human world that had once been his by birthright. The emphasis of this tale is on the transformation of the Beast, who must find his way back to the human sphere. He is a genuine monster, eventually reclaimed by civilité and magic.
Sixteen years later Mme Leprince de Beaumont, a French woman working as a governess in England, shortened Villeneuve's story and published this new version in a magazine for well–bred young ladies. She tailored her version for her audience, toning down its sensual imagery and implicit critique of forced marriages. She also pared away much unnecessary fat — the twisting subplots beloved by Villeneuve — to end up with a tale that was less adult and subversive, but also more direct and memorable. In the Leprince de Beaumont version (and subsequent retellings) the story becomes a more didactic one. The emphasis shifts from the Beast's need for transformation to the need of the
heroine
to change — she must learn to see beyond appearance and recognize the Beast as a good man before his transformation. With this shift, we see the story altered from one of critique and rebellion to one of moral edification, aimed at younger and younger readers, as fairy tales slowly moved from adult salons to children's nurseries. By the 19th century, the Beast's monstrous shape is only a kind of costume that he wears — he poses no genuine danger or sexual threat to Beauty in these children's stories.
In 1946, the tale started making its way back out of the nursery in Jean Cocteau's remarkable film version, La Belle et la Bête. Here, the Beast literally smolders with the force of his sexuality, and Beauty's adventure can be read as a metaphor for her sexual awakening. This is a common theme in a number of Animal Bride and Bridegroom tales from the mid–20th century onward, when fairy tale stories, novels, and poetry became increasingly popular with adult readers. Angela Carter was the leading light in this movement with the publication of her ground–breaking story collection The Bloody Chamber in 1979, containing two powerful, darkly sensual riffs on the Animal Bridegroom theme: "The Courtship of Mr. Lyon" and "The Tiger's Bride". With the works of Carter and writers of her ilk (in mainstream literature, fantasy literature, and feminist poetry), we have come full circle — these are Animal Bride and Bridegroom tales intended for adults once again, exploring issues of gender, sexuality, race, culture, and the process of transformation.
* * *
Another article that may help:
The Literary Fairy Tales of France
www.endicott-studio.com/rdrm/forconte.html
Good luck!
Edited by: Terri Windling at: 12/15/05 3:03 am
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Rosemary Lake
Registered
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(12/15/05 1:21 pm)
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Villeneuve's Beast
[Villeneuve's] Beast is a truly fiercesome figure, not a gentle soul disguised by fur — a creature lost to the human world that had once been his by birthright. The emphasis of this tale is on the transformation of the Beast, who must find his way back to the human sphere. He is a genuine monster, eventually reclaimed by civilité and magic.
That sounds like Disney's Beast. :) I wonder if some of Disney's subplot drew on Villeneuve's subplots.
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Colleen
Unregistered User
(12/16/05 10:54 am)
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Beauty
That sounds like Disney's Beast. :) I wonder if some of Disney's subplot drew on Villeneuve's subplots.
I always wondered if Disney had Robin McKinley working on their script - the whole time I watched it, I kept finding comparisons to Beauty. Then again, comparisons are probably unavoidable since they're using the same source material.
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darklingthrush
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(12/20/05 10:19 am)
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Re: Beauty
I always wondered if Disney had Robin McKinley working on their script - the whole time I watched it, I kept finding comparisons to Beauty. Then again, comparisons are probably unavoidable since they're using the same source material.
I'll agree with you there. I kept thinking of Robin McKinley's
Beauty the first time I watched it. Beauty's bookishness at least is highly reminiscent of the novel. The large horse that she rides so well was also akin to Beauty's from McKinley's book.
The talking teapot, rude huntsman, eccentric inventor as father and innumerable song and dance numbers are purely Disney.
Has anyone read de Villaneuve's Beauty? I've heard it meanders quite a bit and is a bit of a yawn...I've always wanted to read it to satisfy my curiousity.
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sjcottrell
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(12/28/05 5:17 am)
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Re: Beauty, Beast
what i've always seen in the story (in the variations i've heard) is that the two people must give up something of themselves, and grow closer to each other. beauty must grow more bold, the beast muct become calmer. he must learn to trust, she must become trustworthy.
also, that the woman should pull away from her family of origin and become closer to her husband. in the stories i've heard, beauty's family was no great prize. very much a cinderella treatment. so she has to learn to stand up for herself, not allow her family to push her around, in order to be with the man she has grown to love.
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Brave Miranda
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(12/29/05 9:28 pm)
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Re: Beauty, Beast
These topic replies are very thoughtful, with a daunting knowledge of this tale's lineage--a very interesting read.
I would simply add that there is an element of delusion in fairy tales, a comforting element to be sure, but still delusion. Beauty and the Beast is a classic wish fulfillment story. Wish fulfillment is a universal, potent, favorite fantasy. It is alive with hope and encouragement, so necessary to meeting realities and disappointments with resilience. But there is also that treacherous element of delusion, so beware.
Beauty and the Beast operates in a manner similar to the delusion that Cinderella will be rescued from poverty through marriage to a handsome prince who sees her natural beauty, her potential and her noble inner self, sees past her native poverty, her degraded circumstances, her lack of status or wealth. To believe that love can find us regardless of circumstance is hopeful, we need to believe. But the caution about that fairytale has to do with passivity, waiting for a rescuer to hand us the respect and status that negative circumstances may be denying to us.
Beauty and the Beast also has an element of delusion. As others here have said, there are many positive messages in the fairytale about love, and the value of that inner core of integrity, strength, kindness and nobility that "handsome prince" calls to mind in the fairytale realm. We love that element, whether in transforming from a frog to a handsome prince, or the King incognito--it's a wonderful fantasy element. The caution about Beauty and the Beast is again, delusion. In the same way that we must be wary of passivity in Cinderella--we must be wary of denial in Beauty and the Beast. In some versions of the tale, the Beast is rageful, frightening, using fear and the threat of violence to control Beauty, to keep her captive and isolated. Sadly, many women are trapped by the mythical belief in the "real" man beneath beastly exterior behaviors. The salutary message in the fairy tale is that "handsome is as handsome does," and the irresistable lure, the thrill of taming the Beast, of wielding unique, special power is a hook that can catch at anyone's psyche. It may be related to the similar urge to play Pygmalion. The barb in the hook is delusion.
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