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Author
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Comment
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pixiemic
Unregistered User
(11/14/04 8:45 am)
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fairy tales+society
I am currently researching the concept of whether or not society has outgrown fairy tales, that is to say that they are no longer relevant in their original forms with racist, sexist under tones etc and that perhaps the society we live in today needs much more "updated versions" with different and more relevant gender roles and societal values portrayed in them? I would very much like to hear what other people think of this theory.:\
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Veronica Schanoes
Registered User
(11/14/04 12:32 pm)
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Re: fairy tales+society
You're going to have to specify which fairy tales you mean, and what you mean by "original forms." There are plenty of fairy tales and folktales that, in their original forms, are not at all sexist or racist (see, for example The Virago books of Fairytales). Further, even for the more sexist fairy tales, the original versions are often much less sexist than, for example, the Grimms' amendations.
There's also the question of what you mean by "no longer relevant"--there are plenty of editions of fairy tales out there, so clearly they're selling well. Disney fairy tale movies still do well and the tie-in products sell well, I bet (Halloween costumes, etc.), so it seems to me like the more traditional fairy tales are still alive, kicking, and very relevant. Picture books of Cinderella alone, you could fill a station wagon with.
Edited by: Veronica Schanoes at: 11/14/04 12:44 pm
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Heidi Anne Heiner
ezOP
(11/14/04 1:04 pm)
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Re: fairy tales+society
Hmm, an interesting idea, but it also implies that "society" doesn't make its own choices. This is all overgeneralized, but here I go: Society's continued use of fairy tales shows their relevance and the many different variations available show how society uses the tales to suit its own needs and purposes. I am always hesitant to consider fairy tales the cause as much as the symptom. Society picks which fairy tales to embrace according to what it wants. Hundreds of Cinderellas exist and still parents and others choose the sunniest, happiest versions to tell and retell if book sales and film versions, and even advertising, are used as a measuring stick. And I'm not commenting on which version is "best" or "preferred." I don't presume to make that decision. Still, there is also an abundance of parodies of the popular tales, popular in sales, too, that show that society is aware of it's obsession with the happy ending even when they don't necessarily believe in it anymore. Or a happy ending with a little bit more tongue-in-cheek along the way such as in the Shrek movies. BTW, there has been a marked increase in SurLaLune traffic with the theatrical release of the movie this past summer and once again this month with the release to DVD.
One of my favorite examples of how fairy tales reflect society's current values and self-awareness is the higher visibility of Donkey Skin, Deerskin, and related tales in fairy tale collections over 80-100 years ago. It appears less frequently in collections in the mid-20th century. Now it still rarely appears in collections for children presumably in part since society has become more open about incest, making the tale harder to read for those who understand its underlying themes and wish to perhaps maintain innocence or avoid disturbing messages for a bed time story or simple entertainment. Still, abuse survivors have embraced it and it appears all the more frequently in adult audience retellings.
I'm basing this primarily on my experience of researching the tale and finding illustrated versions, virtually impossible to find in the past 50 years. Note that another great example of this is the infrequent publication of Gustave Dore's illustrations for the tale, especially in the U.S., while his illustrations for the other Perrault tales are reproduced quite often and frequently. His image of Red Riding Hood in bed with the wolf is one of the most reproduced illustrations I have seen, but finding a copy of any Donkeyskin illustration takes perseverance--at least before I put them up in the SurLaLune galleries. :)
Heidi
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pixiemic
Registered User
(11/21/04 2:24 pm)
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Re: fairy tales+society
I understand that perhaps my question was a little too general, but perhaps what I am suggesting is something that you picked up on in saying that readers of fairy tales enjoy maintaining the happily ever after scenario, and not necessarily allowing their children to explore other options, thus providing them with a target to aspire to, that perhaps is not moving in the same direction as the rest of society. E.g. the "they were married and lived happily ever after" scenario, providing marriage as the be all and end all of a young girls existence. I don't want to go off on a feminist tangent but don't you think that although there is a place for the well known fairy tale, there is now becoming a greater need to explore variations of the tale and provide children with alternative endings that could stimulate them to consider other targets in their lives, and view other characteristics in a new and more balanced light. The young heroine in the (better known) story is strikingly beautiful, obedient to the point of being totally passive and unopinionated and always waiting for her prince to come. Surely in a society where beauty is focused on so heavily to the point where young people are obsessive about their weight and make up etc, children should be hearing that intelligence, courage, perseverance and assertiveness are highly valued too. Having read "Don't bet on the prince"by Jack Zipes, my eyes were suddenly opened to a fantastic world I never knew existed, one in which the female lead was resourceful and used her initiative. She might have met the prince, been rescued by him or even rescued him herself but didn't necessarily have to marry him. Doesn't this promote a better image for young girls to be seeing. Having worked with children for some time now, I am very aware of how little girls always want to be the beautiful princess, (doesn't every one?), but why cant she be the beautiful princess who is independent and assertive too?
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Veronica Schanoes
Registered User
(11/21/04 6:17 pm)
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Re: fairy tales+society
If your question is "Wouldn't it be better for everybody if there were more widely known stories involving active, assertive, intelligent heroines?" then of course I agree. You can find many of them in folklore and fairy tales. But I still don't think the traditional forms are irrelevant, because they're so very, very popular. I don't think the need for tales with intelligent strong-minded women is greater now than it was fifty or a hundred years ago. Just more recognized now.
Man, I'm glad I wasn't born a hundred years ago, now that I think about it.
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aka Greensleeves
Registered User
(11/21/04 8:30 pm)
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Re: fairy tales+society
I think Veronica touches on an important point, that skepticism with a happily-ever-after scenario is hardly new. George Eliot (aka Mary Ann Evans), for instance, was strongly critical of the Jane Austen-type story where making a good marriage was the heroine's goal. She wrote an essay titled something like "Silly Novels by Women Novelists" stressing the point, and much of her own fiction (notably MIDDLEMARCH) deals with what happens *after* the wedding day. So even outside the fairy-tale realm, I think these issues have been pondered--especially by women--for many generations.
Edited by: aka Greensleeves at: 11/21/04 8:30 pm
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Veronica Schanoes
Registered User
(11/22/04 3:38 am)
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Re: fairy tales+society
Oh, yes indeed. The original Beauty and the Beast is, to my understanding, a tale about dealing with a less than satisfactory husband.
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