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Author
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Comment
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ronnerandall
Registered User
(5/4/04 2:41 am)
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dissertation topic
I am struggling with homing in on a topic for my 10-12,000-word dissertation for an MA in Folklore I am doing at Sheffield University in the UK.
I am most interested in mother and daughter figures in folk/fairy tales; I am especially intrigued by the idea (which I first encountered in an article by Kay Stone, called “Feminist Approaches to the Interpretation of Fairy Tales”) that some interpreters see many female figures in märchen as descendants of goddesses and supernatural figures… I began to wonder whether a patriarchal society couldn't deal with powerful women, and so turned mother goddesses into witches and evil stepmothers? I am also interested in psychological approaches, most especially Jungian.
However, my tutor feels (and I'm inclined to agree) that I am ranging far too broadly for a 10,000-word paper, and I am having an exceptionally hard time trying to narrow my scope and come up with a valid topic (and hypothesis) to focus on—that hasn’t already been done to death.
At the moment, I’m considering looking at two or three different versions of Rapunzel (one of the tales I’m most interested in) and comparing the surrogate mother figure—enchantress/witch/fairy—in those, to look at differences and similarities. But that doesn't seem to be going far enough--it's just an analysis, which is not enough for a dissertation.
I would be enormously grateful for any suggestions, feedback, etc. Thank you!!!
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Helen
J Pilinovsky
Registered User
(5/4/04 7:12 am)
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Re: dissertation topic
Well - and this is just a baseline, off the cuff reaction - I think that if you were, perhaps, to research the roots of the tale, and to try to go beyond them into an examination of some of the local cult figures in the regions responsible for the earliest extant versions, you might find the material for a dissertation that was a bit more than pure analysis. The symbols associated with Petrosinella - the greenery, the tower, and, of course, the hair - do have tantalizing hints of *something* that might be based in a pre-Christian religion: the notion of the daughter as a sacrifice offered up for her mother's health, in particular, is very interesting. I have *no* idea if the requisite material is there (I haven't done a great deal of research on this tale-type) but it's one potential approach that you could take. You could also try to to formulate a theory concerning the interactions of women in society on the basis of the sort of a segmented perception of femininity that you have at work within the tale - mother, crone, and maiden - all of whom, contrary to the more matriarchally based notion of working in harmony, instead, work against one another (and, nevertheless, when one of them, the maiden, would advance to another state, she is met with antagonism: her cycle is being suspended, deliberately, for reasons that are, in most versions, unclear). As the crone is the one disrupting the cycle, first of the mother by taking away her child, and then of the maiden, by preventing her from moving forward, one could hypothesize that the tale is a reaction against the notion of women's power, implying that powerful women want only to hoard their power for themselves, that they are, in some way, negating the natural progressions of proper femininity, which would mesh nicely with your ideas concerning the subsumation of female power into patriarchy. These are "before-I've-had-my-morning-coffee-thoughts," so they might not be very helpful: will come back again after work.
Best,
Helen
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Veronica
Schanoes
Registered User
(5/4/04 7:18 am)
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Re: dissertation topic
I am writing a disseration on mother-daughter relationships in contemporary
revisions of fairy tales--I think it's a fascinating subject! I'm
not really doing much with the source tales themselves, but I've
heard that theory before, that tales are the attenuated myths of
an effaced religion and that witch figures in them are stand-ins
for goddesses. I think it's a fascinating idea. Speaking of Jungian,
have you read Marie-Louise von Franz's The Feminine in Fairy
Tales? I haven't had a chance to read it closely yet, but it
might be helpful.
As to Rapunzel--I don't know, I think that tale is particularly evocative of blurring of boundaries between love, protection, and oppression. But don't forget about the birth mother either--what's her role?
Have you thought about the idea that mother and daughter figures are aspects of the same divinity? I always think that one's interesting.
Edited to add that Helen's thoughts, as usual, are far more coherent, thoughtful, and helpful. Hi Helen!
Edited by: Veronica Schanoes at: 5/4/04 7:48 am
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Jess
Unregistered User
(5/4/04 9:07 am)
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Probably not on point, but
This may be waaaay out there, but I wonder if the "crone" represents an mother earth figure. It is interesting to note that there are a number of fairy/folk tales where the mother either exchanges her issue for something that is grown in the earth as in Rupunzel, or in the positive receives a child from something grown in the earth, as in Thumbelina. If we were to look at the crone as a mother earth figure and if we were to layer your theory on it, one could argue the crone is "jealous" of that which she cannot produce herself. It might further be argued that the story shows the limitations in the various kind of women - the mother earth figure not truly understanding human/animal reproduction (hence Rupunzel becoming pregnant even though she is locked a away, and the human women being slaves their emotions at any cost. I can't help but think there are some Greek/Roman myths (pre-Roman?) that deal with this topic too. I might have to check it out.
Another thought is that all the figures in the Rupunzel story are terribly niave and self-centered. One could look for similar early tales where women's self-focus leads to loss with out male diety intervention. In Greek and Roman myth female dieties are often viewed this way.
Jess
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Jess
Unregistered User
(5/4/04 9:38 am)
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Have you looked at
"Descent of the Goddess" by Sylvia Brinton Perera? She apparently makes some of the same points you are trying to make. I have seen this work referenced several times, but have not read it myself.
Jess
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Jess
Unregistered User
(5/4/04 9:51 am)
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Descent TO the Goddess
Sorry.
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Jess
Unregistered User
(5/4/04 10:16 am)
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Having too much fun with this topic
I know you want some direction or analysis, but you got me really thinking here. How could this rather negative tale have been spun in a positive light? Suppose for a moment that it sprung from a pre-greek/roman vision of Venus. At that time Venus was honored as a mother earth goddess, protector of gardens and protector against vice. That being the case, the mother exchanging her child - a girl - for something in the garden, a magical plant, would be much more rational. The daughter is promised to be brought up free of the intervention of men, and perhaps serve in the temple of Venus as an example of purity. The daughter is not literally "locked in the tower" but figuratively as she is protected from vice, including men, by Venus. But a man, being what he is, manages to break through this protection, angering the goddess who wreaks her revenge (his distruction and blindness). The girl can no longer serve her temple (or whatever), but being the mother goddess, Venus cannot completely destroy the girl who is pregnant and exiles her to a far away land away from the source of her indiscretion. The happy reuniting comes either in later versions, or as the goddess's anger softens.
Okay, enough fun. I hope I didn't go too far here.
Jess
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ronnerandall
Registered User
(5/4/04 1:53 pm)
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Re:dissertation topic
Just wanted to say thank you to Helen, Jess et al. for your thoughtful
and helpful replies--you've given me much to think about, and I'm
SO grateful! I do have the Perera and von Franz books,
but I haven't had a chance yet to give them more than a cursory
glance so far (still working on my essays for this term's modules)--I
fully intend to use them in my research.
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redtriskell
Registered User
(5/5/04 10:35 pm)
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dissertation topic
Hello- my what an interesting topic. Have you read Marina Warner's "From the Beast to the Blonde"? It's an incredibly informative look at the feminine principle in many fairy and folk tales. I don't recall specifically if she references Rapunzel, but there is a wealth of interesting ideas in that book.
On a tangent, I wonder if you've considered tackling this idea from the viewpoint of fertility? Previously noted by others, the triple aspect of femininity is a powerful place to begin. One could possibly discuss the reproductive capabilities of women at various points in the story. Along the same thought line, to tie into your theory of male fear, one could also argue that the seemingly magical development of pregnancy could have sown the seeds (as it were) of that fear/awe. Goddesses of every region controlled reproduction and death; I imagine they also inspired a great religious terror that lent itself to reasons why women needed to be kept under male authority. I mean, you couldn't exactly control your local fertility/death goddess, but you certainly could exercise your male power on your wife. Just a thought...
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