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Author
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Comment
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winkingstar
Registered User
(3/15/04 7:20 pm)
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Problems with the AT index?
Hey all,
I know that there are numerous complaints about the Aarne-Thompson index, but what I am looking for if any of you happen to know, are problematic classifications where tales that are otherwise very similar are classified as completely different types (not subtypes) due to one character difference (gender difference, different type of villain, etc.). I know that AT311 & 312 (Bluebeard), and 313 & 314 (The Magic Flight) are classified as different types because of the gender of the hero. What would really be helpful would be if anyone knows of very similar tales that are classified as completely different types (i.e. not right next to each other in numerical order). I'm doing a presentation for a class on Friday on Propp's _Morphology of the Folktale_ and I thought it would be helpful if I could include the problems with AT that Propp attempts to solve.
Thanks!
~winkingstar
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Veronica
Schanoes
Registered User
(3/15/04 8:47 pm)
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Re: Problems with the AT index?
Aargh, this is driving me crazy, because I know I know
this. I can't find the number of the tale or the source from which
I got this (I just went back through my notes on a paper I did on
fairy tales and genre, but apparently this info wasn't relevant
to the paper I was writing then). I know that there's a significant
difference in "quest for the beloved" narratives (I made
that name up) depending on whether the questor is male or female.
So "East of the Sun and West of the Moon" is classified
in an entirely different way than...and now I'm drawing a blank
on an equivalent tale w/a male protagonist. I remember that the
names of the categories are also very different, in such a way as
to present the female protagonist as more passive and the male as
more active. I wish I could be more helpful. Sorry.
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winkingstar
Registered User
(3/15/04 9:58 pm)
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Re: Problems with the AT index?
Thanks, that was very helpful! I looked up AT425 (East of the Sun
& West of the Moon, etc.) and it sounds very similar to AT400 (equivalent
of East of the Sun tales but with the search for a lost wife instead
of husband) except for the genders. I'll keep flipping through the
AT index, but I would gladly welcome more suggestions!
Thanks again!
~winkingstar
Edited by: winkingstar at: 3/15/04 9:59 pm
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Rosemary
Lake
Registered User
(3/15/04 10:19 pm)
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Swan Maiden?
Husband searching for animal-wife after he breaks prohibition or spies on her, see Swan Maiden.
I have a vague memory of some good observations about the 'Swan Maiden' group from Joseph Jacobs, perhaps in EUROPEAN FAIRY TALES?
Similar tale, girl marries bear, does the Cupid and Psyche thing, has to go searching for him. Curtin, "King Valemon the White Bear" or such? (My version is at my site as "The White Bear's Neckband" but I changed the search completely and the middle somewhat.)
R.
www.rosemarylake.com
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Helen
J Pilinovsky
Registered User
(3/16/04 12:29 pm)
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Re: Swan Maiden?
This sounds fascinating! You might also want to look at "The Blue Bird" (AT 432) and try comparing it to "The Frog Princess" (which, unfortunately, I can't remember the number of offhand). The two are very similar transformation narratives, related in some ways to "East o'the Sun, West o'the Moon," but they both qualify for seperate classification because of their specificity in terms of gender and species.
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Don
Registered User
(3/16/04 5:10 pm)
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Re: Swan Maiden?
Maria Tatar addresses some of these issues in her introduction to the Beauty and the Beast section of The Classic Fairy Tales (especially the contrast between "The Man on the Quest for His Lost Wife" and "The Search for the Lost Husband" tale types).
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Veronica
Schanoes
Registered User
(3/16/04 9:11 pm)
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That's it!
Ding ding ding ding ding! Thank you, Don! That's exactly where I read that! No wonder I couldn't find it in the notes I was looking for--that was an entirely different paper. Nice to know that I'm not starting to hallucinate info!
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winkingstar
Registered User
(3/17/04 1:56 pm)
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Thanks
Thanks so much, you've been very helpful!
~winkingstar
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