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Author
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Comment
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rosyelf
Registered User
(3/25/04 12:56 pm)
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Nursery Bogies
I've just logged on ! I've been enjoying the archive material so much-the opinions, the suggestions for reading, the support given. So hello to everybody ! I am a poet. And I've loved folktales and fairy tales for as long as I can remember. My favourites are German tales-esp. the Brothers Grimm-Scandinavian tales, British tales and ones from Russia and Eastern Europe. Having said that, I've recently become very interested in the Japanese kitsune figure, and have some Japanese stuff on my wishlist.
Here's a new thread. I'm trying to find out examples of Nursery
Bogies from various cultures. A Nursery Bogie is a figure whom adults
never really believed in but whom they created in order to frighten
children into good behaviour, keep them away from streams, etc.
Katherine Briggs in her wonderful Dictionary of Fairies-I don't
have a copy to hand right now-lists some of them, all British :
Peg Powler-a haggish spirit who dwells in the River Tees in the North-east of England.She likes to eat children who come near the water.
Jenny Greenteeth-a similar figure, this time from Lancashire(N.W.England) and, I believe, various other places in England.
The Gooseberry Wife-an entity on the Isle of Wight who catches children trying to steal fruit.
A Jewish friend of mine has given me an interesting example of a rather modern Nursery Bogie. When Oswald Mosley and his British Union of Fascists were organizing rallies in London during the Thirties, and harrassing lots of Jewish residents, Jewish children who didn't behave themselves were told that Oswald Mosley would come and get them. Similarly, in Napoleonic times, British children were sometimes threatened with "Boney."
In advance, for any contributions, thank you.I'm looking chiefly for names, short descriptions, and the regions where these Bogies occur, but if anyone knows of a book or published essay on the topic, that would be great, too.
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Heather
KT
Registered User
(3/25/04 3:31 pm)
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Re: Nursery Bogies
In her book "At the Bottom of the Garden," Diane Purkiss mentions several, starting with Greek mythology:
"when any of the girls does disobedience to her mother, the mother calls the Cyclopes to her child, and from within the house comes Hermes, stained with burnt ashes. And straightway he plays bogey to the child and she runs to her mother's lap, with her hands over her eyes."
(p. 14, citing Callimachus, "Hymn to Artemis")
Cool topic!
Heather Tomlinson
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janeyolen
Registered User
(3/25/04 7:16 pm)
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Re: Nursery Bogies
In Scotland during the War for Independence (Robert the Bruce et al) the Bruce's right hand man The Black Douglas became such a bogie to the English and their Scottish toadies. Jamie Douglas and his handpicked men seemed to be able to get into any castle they wanted to. And the little rhyme to put babes to sleep became:
"Ah, hush ye, dinna fret thee,
The Black Douglas, he's nay gonna get ye."
So (the story goes) sang one nurse walking the turrets one night with a fretful child when a mailed hand touched her shoulder and a voice whispered to her, "I wouldna be so sure o' that!"
Jane
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DonnaQ
Registered User
(3/26/04 2:36 am)
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Re: Nursery Bogies
A great little tale from a natural storyteller! Loved the post, Jane. Thanks.
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AlisonPegg
Registered User
(3/26/04 3:17 am)
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Re: Nursery Bogies
Here's one....hope you enjoy it!
mysite.freeserve.com/snow...eyman1.htm
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Colleen
Unregistered User
(3/26/04 11:46 am)
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Interesting Short Story
(Wow, haven't been here for ages - lack of internet access till recently - and I've been having fun catching up.)
There's an interesting take on the boogey man at www.strangehorizons.com/
. Check the fiction for March 1, 2004. It's a story called "For
Now It's Eight O'Clock" by Alex Irvine. The boogey man is Wee
Willie Winkie. Funny, I'd never seen him as a boogey man figure
before, but after reading this story, I find him very creepy.
Shortly after reading this and then having a conversation with a friend which included the tradition of placing pennies on the eyes of the dead so they can pay the ferry man (I almost typed "fairy man"), I had a dream about another kind of boogey man. He only visited houses with five-year-old daughters and he leave them unharmed if someone paid him two pennies when he stopped in. Parents gave their daughters two pennies when they turned five and implored them never to be without them in case the boogey man came. I don't remember what he was actually called; it wasn't the boogey man.
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aka
Greensleeves
(3/26/04 4:43 pm)
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Re: Interesting Short Story
I have only anecdotal evidence from my own life to support this one; perhaps someone can back it up with some scholarship?
This is politically incorrect (and certainly racist) and terribly dated now, but when I was a child, our parents threatened to sell us to Gypsies (I don't know where they thought they'd find Gypsies in suburban Iowa in the 1970s, but there you go). My mother's ancestry was Irish and Scandanavian (her parents were immigrants), if that means anything.
I wouldn't normally admit to such a thing, but anything for the sake of research!
Edited by: aka Greensleeves at: 3/27/04 1:39 pm
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Veronica
Schanoes
Registered User
(3/27/04 10:40 am)
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gypsies
I think that the idea/prejudice of gypsies stealing or buying children
is a fairly old one. It's referenced in Nesbit's Five Children
and It in a kind of sarcastic way--the gypsies, once free from
the magic spell, point out that they have plenty of babies of their
own, thank you very much. I don't know a prior reference off the
top of my head, though.
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rosyelf
(3/27/04 12:49 pm)
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NURSERY BOGIES
Delighted to receive these replies. Alison, that story is superb-and I love your website.(Have already read and enjoyed the Russian cat tale !) As for Gipsies, threatening children with them IS un-pc and racist, yes, but very widespread, I think. I was never threatened with them as a child but there was a local field(this in Devon,England) where a group of Gypsy families camped for certain times of year, and the general feeling roundabout was that they should definitely be avoided. (Umm)
Black Douglas-that's a great tale. I am an English-Scottish hybrid, by the way, so it speaks to my heart.
Please keep 'em coming. By the way, I checked up Diane Purkiss's book on Amazon and the reviews were very mixed. About half said the book was fascinating, well-researched,etc whilst the other half maintained the book to be pretentious, long-winded and downright condescending. What do you think ?
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AlisonPegg
Registered User
(3/28/04 11:57 am)
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Re: NURSERY BOGIES
Thank you for your nice comments about my website. It's lovely to get feedback from people!
Alison
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silentgothicpixie
Registered User
(3/29/04 7:39 am)
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Re: NURSERY BOGIES
Hi, started reading this by chance and have a couple of suggestions although I don't know much about them.
The first is one I remember my mother, and friends parents using
- The Scissor Man. Supposedly a kind of Edward Scissorhands type
figure who would come and cut off your thumb if you sucked it .
The other is Black Peter, I know him in the dutch version through the 'legend' of St Nicolaas. In Holland St. Nicolaas is treated as a Santa Claus figure and Black Peter traveled with him to beat the naughty children. I think in some cultures he gave coal to naughty children instead but I only know what my Dutch father told me.
Also, traditionally Fairies were rather mean, I think also used
in much the same way as gypsies ('The Fairies will get you' etc)
- I know my youngest brother was absolutely terrified by the concept
of the tooth fairy .
Gem
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Heidi
Anne Heiner
ezOP
(3/29/04 7:44 am)
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Re: NURSERY BOGIES
Have you already consulted Marina Warner's book, No Go The Bogeyman : Scaring, Lulling, and Making Mock? Check your library or see it here on Amazon.com. (The hardcover is cheaper than the paperback.)
www.amazon.com/exec/obido...lalufairyt
Heidi
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Heidi
Anne Heiner
ezOP
(3/29/04 7:50 am)
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Re: NURSERY BOGIES
Actually, Warner's book has been remaindered and is available on Bookcloseouts.com for $7.99 at the moment.
www.bookcloseouts.com/bc/...id=surlalu
There's more fairy tale bargain books listed on this page:
www.surlalunefairytales.c...books.html
Heidi
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rosyelf
(3/29/04 7:55 am)
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Black peter, Krampus, and the Scissors Man
The Scissor Man-creepy! Thanks for that. Also, Black Peter. When I lived and worked in Austria for a few months-in the STRANGEST village, in the East Tyrol, in mountains, very scenic AND very odd-there was somebody similar.Saint Nicholas would go round the houses on St. Nicholas' Eve (December 5th) delivering presents to the children. Simultaneously, the streets would be filling up with young men wearing scary costumes and masks . This figure was known as the Krampus and was traditionally Saint Nicholas' dark side, to punish the bad children, etc. These young men did not enter the houses of the children but instead caught young women-in mock, ritualistic anger, i suppose-and presented them not with a whipping but a little glass of Schnaps ! I imagine this evolved from real punishments dealt out in times gone by. Oddly enough, although these goings-on were so eerie-you should have heard the shouts and whistles, rising up in the cold dark December night !- al these young men had to apply for a licence from the local authorities before they could be a Krampus for the night !
Again, many thanks for the contributions, everybody.
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