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Author
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Comment
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meski
Unregistered User
(3/11/04 3:32 am)
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poverty in fairy tales
hey i was looking round tinternet for some help on finding fairytales with poverty and oppression in them but im kinda stuck!! eek can anybody help?
xxxxxxx liz xxxxxx
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Helen
J Pilinovsky
Registered User
(3/11/04 6:50 am)
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Re: poverty in fairy tales
Well, you might start off with "Hansel and Gretel," children of a woodcutter so poor that he believes that he has no options other than abandoning them in the forest, who then turn to a life of larceny despite the danger ...
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Veronica
Schanoes
Registered User
(3/11/04 7:46 am)
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Re: poverty in fairy tales
Jack and the Bean Stalk, also. And Puss-in-Boots, about poor boys who make good by devious means. There's a whole slew of fairy tales in the Andrew Lang books aobut third sons of poor farmers who have to go off and seek their fortunes, right? I can't remember about Katie Crackernuts--is she poor? I'm pretty sure she's a commoner.
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Helen
J Pilinovsky
Registered User
(3/11/04 9:45 am)
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Re: poverty in fairy tales
It's interesting, actually - the bourgeoisie rarely seem to make appearances in fairy tales (the rare exceptions that I can think of being either from Basile, or "Beauty and the Beast," and even in those, though the protagonist may be of the middle classes, they usually become embroiled with royalty in one way or another). It's a genre of extremes ...
I think that one of my favorite takes on the idea of poverty and virtue being linked has to be Joyce Carol Oates short story, which I believe is called "The Diamond Necklace." .
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Jess
Unregistered User
(3/12/04 9:31 am)
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Hmm
But Helen, wouldn't you argue that when they do appear it is often at a point of lost fortune, which then leads to an untenable position (perhaps one can argue an oppressive one) for the protagonist?
Also, the Calvino fairy tales have more than several tales where merchants or children of merchants are involved. In contrast to the French tales, they are often tales of wit or humor.
Back on thread, you might want to check Calvino's Italian fairy tales for variations on the abandoned children theme - you have Tom Thumb in the French version. I also recall in Lang and elsewhere several Russian "Ivan" tales where the family is poor or destitute, but the youngest, often most ignorant son makes good with the aide of some magic.
I am also curious by what you mean by the term "oppressive"? Are you talking about a forced position, as in the Goosegirl (not really a poverty story)? Or something more in tune with the horrible arranged marriage in Beauty in Beauty in the Beast? Or sheer terror type in Hansel and Gretel?
Finally, poverty is sometimes used as a mask in Fairy tales to test someone or something, for example The Princess and the Swineherd. In this instance, there is usually no oppression involved at all.
Jess
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Helen
J Pilinovsky
Registered User
(3/12/04 12:03 pm)
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Re: Hmm
Good point, Jess. That's *definitely* true in B&B - I guess that the only exceptions that I can think of *are* Italian, then. Now that has some interesting implications ...
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Laura
McCaffrey
Registered User
(3/12/04 12:14 pm)
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Norwegian
You could also try the Ash Lad tales - found in Norwegian collections. These are classic lazy youngest triumphs stories. Many have a good deal of humor.
I, too, was wondering what you meant by oppression. Class oppression, specifically? Sexism, racism, as well?
LauraMc
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winkingstar
Registered User
(3/15/04 7:35 pm)
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Re: Russian
Afanas'ev's _Russian Fairy Tales_ includes several tales which relate a conflict between a rich man and a poor man, usually involving wit instead of magic, and ending up with the poor peasant becoming richer. Some of the tales I'm thinking of are "Misery," "The Dead Body," and "Shemiaka the Judge." Another tale in Afanas'ev's collection, "The Goldfish," is about a poor fisherman who spares the life of a goldfish who promises to grant his wishes in return. The fisherman's wife makes the fisherman ask more and more of the goldfish (so that the wife becomes governor, mayor, queen, etc.), but in the end the goldfish takes everything back and they're left with what they had before. There are a few other tales throughout Afanas'ev that might help you out.
~winkingstar
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Rosemary
Lake
Registered User
(3/15/04 10:27 pm)
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Afanasev, poor girl plays blind man's buff with a bear
Dunno about 'oppressive'. In many kind/unkind stories the family seems pretty poor.
In my favorite, from Afanasev, where a poor girl plays blind man's buff with a bear, the stepmother oppresses the heroine and sends her off to live in a mud hut in the forest and spin yarn. It's titled "Daughter and Stepdaughter" but is quite unlike many stories of that title (which are more like "Mother Holle").
Do you read Russian?
R.
(Helen, I've never received that scan from you. Did it go astray? Even just bibliographic info would be a big help.)
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Jess
Unregistered User
(3/16/04 3:48 pm)
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The Arabian Nights too
Helen, again a little OT, but the Arabian Nights also have quite a few merchant tales. Some of these are tales of caution, but others are humorous or just plain magic tales. They certainly don't all include nobility, except perhaps as the audience.
Jess
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aj
Unregistered User
(4/1/04 12:38 pm)
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poor
quite a few of the grimm tales have poor protaginists but you might want to check out "The Red Flower" (anonymos i think) you can find it in the coleection "the queen's Mirror"; it talks shows class relations and is definently communistic (is that a real word? oh well)
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