|
Author
|
Comment
|
Rose Deo
Unregistered User
(8/25/03 1:16 pm)
|
Anime and Japanese modern fairy tales
On the topic of modern fairy tales ...
I am interested in finding literary (rather than visual/animation) versions of the Japanese anime tales to use as examples of modern fairy tales.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to find a good source of written versions of the anime tales? They have some really nice themes, especially for young female readers (there is a sub-genre devoted to young women), so I would really love to use them if I can find some.
Cheers
Rose
|
Nav
Unregistered User
(8/26/03 2:04 am)
|
As far as I know...
...except in Japan it is hard to find text versions of any anime. What you can find is Manga. I would suggest Manga (comix, graphix novel, etc.) versions of Hayao Miyazaki's films, most of which are steeped in Japanese and Buddhist lore. You can find manga versions of Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away in comic stores or through Amazon.com. A lot of anime contains elements of Japanese myth and fairie tales in them, but usually put modern twists on them. Then there are the period Samurai and Ninja anime, some of which is based on legends, most of which are made up by more recent sources, like Lone Wolf and Cub, Ninja Scroll, Inuyasha, etc. Inuyasha, although largely fantasy, is interesting for its varied use of legendary Japanese demons and other mythical creatures in the storyline. Maybe someone here has a wider idea of what is available as far as straight anime/manga fairy tales stories.
|
Richard
Parks
Registered User
(8/26/03 7:16 am)
|
Anime/Fairy Tales
You'd probably be better off going to the original fairy tales/folklore in the first place. Much anime/manga draws inspiration from folk and religious traditions but, as Nav said, the artists and animators are usually working change riffs on the source material rather than doing straightforward retellings (read any manga by Rumiko Takahashi: the references are numerous and, in the cases of Ranma 1/2 and Urusei Yatsura, hysterical). There are exceptions, of course, like the Hakkenden, but those are relatively rare, at least for the series that have made it to translation. Most are more like Dragon Ball, where the original legend of the Monkey King is so reworked as to become something else completely.
|
Blackwolf
Unregistered User
(8/26/03 8:56 am)
|
Saiyuki
0ne I can think of at the tip of my mind is 'Saiyuki' which is actually the Chinese 'Journey to the West'.
I think Neil Gaiman also did a good intepretation of the Inari (the fox people/maiden) as well in 'Dreamhunters'.
Blackwolf
|
Rose Deo
Unregistered User
(8/26/03 2:28 pm)
|
Manga/Anime
Hi RIchard
Thanks for your comments. I realise that the manga and anime are
not actually modern re-works of traditional fairy tales, which is
why I want to use them!
As I said in an earlier comment about modern fairy tales, I have collected data regarding readers' emotional responses to 52 traditional fairy tales from around the world now (with data from another 20 being collected now), and now I'm preparing a series of studies that compare these traditional tales with:
(a) modern fairy tales that are not reworks of old tales (e.g. manga, anime, fantasy literature etc)
(b) modern re-works of old tales (e.g. Angela Carter)
etc etc
I think the anime are fantastic stories and very interesting in terms of the motifs etc that come through of, for example, industry versus nature. I'm really looking forward to including them in my research, so I'll follow up on all of the references I have seen here so far.
Cheers
Rose
|
Nav
Unregistered User
(8/26/03 9:09 pm)
|
Industry...
...vs. nature is definitely one of Miyazaki's running themes. He resembles Tolkien in this aspect. Princess Mononoke is a prime example. However, he usually wishes to "work things out" between the two sides rather than just present industry as a demon to be exorcized. Above I said that his work is Buddhist in nature, and while those overtones are there, he is actually more animistic in many ways, which is why his stories resemble fairy tales more than many others in anime. He populates his worlds with legendary creatures, forest spirits, etc. I, too, love the way Anime puts a post modern spin on the traditional, and in that it resembles urban myth and fiction more than many other forms around today.
|
Mnemosynehime
Registered User
(8/26/03 11:20 pm)
|
RE: Anime & Fairy Tales
Hello,
This is actually my first post to the board though I've followed the threads and the site for longer than I can remember. This thread prompted me to post though as it's a topic I've researched several years myself and would love to help on it if I can. ^.^
Miyazaki's already been mentioned and I have to whole-heartedly agree he'd be a first choice. Nausciaa of the Valley of Wind is also a good series of his to pick up (the graphic novels are available from Viz). Another you might find interesting besides his or Takahashi's works, is Ayashi no Ceres or Ceres, the Celestial Legend by Yuu Watase. She bases the story around the legend of the tennyo and even compares it to similar tale types such as swan maidens and selkies and such. Blue Seed, while not a particular legend or folkltale, discusses issues of modern Japan versus respect and appreciation of old Japan and uses deities, old beliefs, and folk creatures from specific regions to do this. Vampire Princess Miyu is incredibly beautiful and haunting (the anime is, haven't read the books yet) and is good if you're looking for very Japanese themed ghost tales. A book coming out this winter which you really should give a look to is Snow Goddess Tales or Shirahime-Syo by CLAMP (it'll be coming out from Tokyopop). This is a beautiful set of stories set within a main story inspired by the Yuki-Onna figure. And each tale reads and has a feel of a Japanese folktale or fairy tale even though they are stories written by the women of CLAMP. They all deal with human nature and have a sad or tragic quality to them, which you will find is reflected in many Yuki-Onna or snow maiden characters in anime/manga (or at least my favorite ones follow this pattern).
I have a site that may give you some ideas: www.anime-myth.com
If you have a specific motif you're looking for, I could probably give you more examples.
Not Japanese fairy tale themed, but for fairy tale study, Revolutionary Girl Utena is one of the most fascinating modern pieces discussing the genre. I don't recommend the manga so much, but the anime series is very, very good in its layers of what a fairy tale itself does or its use, of popular view of archetypes (like the prince, witch, etc.) vs a more Jungian or literary view of those characters or motifs.
Anyway, I know this was a bit long, but it's been a long, fun study for me. And too, I'm sorry I haven't posted to this forum before, but will say I've found it to be excellent and always enjoy my nightly visits to check in on updates.
|
Oyceter
Registered User
(8/27/03 8:21 pm)
|
RE: Anime and Fairy Tales
Hi,
First time poster here too. I'm not quite sure what you mean by anime tales, but I'd have to agree with everyone that manga would probably be your best source for written material, as much anime is based on manga and vice versa. If you're looking for tales that incorporate Chinese/Japanese mythology, there's Inu Yasha, which should have some traditional Japanese demons (anime and manga). Fushigi Yugi, which is also anime and manga, incorporates bits and pieces of Chinese and Japanese mythology, and apparently Dragon Ball Z does as well, with Monkey.
Miyazaki I'd argue almost creates his own mythology. Many of the gods/spirit creatures in Spirited Away are his own idea, while others are based in tradition. Totoro's totoro and the soot creatures are also his invention I think, as are the kodama in Princess Mononoke.
3x3 Eyes has an interesting take on Tibetan mythology and what I think is a very esoteric branch of Buddhism.
A great deal more anime and manga use non-Japanese mythology -- Sailor Moon draws on planets and astrology, X (X/1999 in the US) uses some tarot imagery. I find sometimes the imagery is merely on the surface level though.
Neon Genesis Evangelion (originally anime) is an absolutely brilliant look at what is perhaps the most pervasive "mythology" in Western culture and uses extensive Biblical, gnostic and Kabbalistic imagery to make points about human evolution, the nature of man, loneliness, and... I could go on forever. It's a great series.
I also second the above opinion on Revolutionary Girl Utena/Shojo
Kakumei Utena... wrote my thesis on it. I'd argue that both the
manga and the anime attempt to subvert the stereotypes about fairy
tales, especially the central theme of the prince that rescues the
princess. The manga and the anime in the end come to slightly different
conclusions about what happens to a girl who doesn't want to be
a princess (Utena wants to be a prince, but she was once rescued
by a prince, making her a princess as well). The anime has a lot
more to work with, being 39 episodes long, as opposed to only five
books, and the anime extends the theme, incorporating the imagery
of the witch and using the story of more secondary characters to
complement the journey of Utena and Anthy.
|
Mnemosynehime
Registered User
(8/27/03 10:31 pm)
|
Re: Anime & Fairy Tales
I'd have to agree, Miyazaki is amazing in that respect, how grand his imagination gets. I think many of his spirits though, are influenced by actual spirits, though he'll make them his own creation and give the audience a representation of said spirits unique to his stories (or go wild as you noted with things like the soot spirits). Kodama (spirit of trees) for instance are actual Japanese spirits, but the mushroom-like creatures Miyazaki portrays are his own vision of them.
Sailor Moon is a bit of a headache mythology wise (but in a good
way). There's just so many references and influences from both West
and East cultures. I first saw the series back in '99 and still
find new little hidden bits (though usually as you stated on X,
more surface than deep). X to me seems to be a bit of a balance
between the surface biblical references and it's use of Eastern
magic, specifically taoism or onmyodo.
I think for direct modern reworkings of fairy tales from Western tradition, from what I've seen Junko Mizuno's work would be good for this (though very pop-culturish): Cinderella, Hansel and Gretal (both of which I believe are linked through SurLaLune. I haven't read either yet myself, but has anyone else, and would you recommend them? She also has a third, Princess Mermaid, but it's not available in English yet.
Oyceter, you too huh? I also presented a project on Utena as my final seminar piece to the department. What did you end up focusing in on? I had too many aspects I wanted to do, hehe, but finally I focused in as much as I could on the princess (and varying portrayals/motifs from literature and how it fit the fairy tale depictions and discussion of the series). Sleeping princess motif, "princess" as defined in the SKU world, etc. I'm still trying to work on this from time to time, and the other motifs for the series, and find it's one of those things I wish I could do over as of course after the more research one does, and the more tales one reads, the more I find I wish I'd gotten more indepth with.
|
Oyceter
Registered User
(8/28/03 1:01 am)
|
Utena and etc.
Hrm, haven't heard of Junko Mizuno... will have to look this up sometime (adding to my great list!). I think the thing that springs up most to my mind for fairy tale reworkings would be Tanizaku Jun'ichiro's House of the Sleeping Beauties, but I read that about five years ago, so it's not too clear in my mind.
I would definitely argue that too often the evocative mythological/religious imagery used in anime and manga are surface only, with quite obvious connections, which is why I enjoy Evangelion so much. Chock full of religious imagery, yes, but it rethinks the images and what they stand for in a very unique way.
Glad Utena's getting more attention these days! My thesis didn't actually start out with Utena. I was originally investigating the prevalence of shonen ai in shojo manga, but after I realized everyone had written on it, my advisor advised me to do a critical analysis of the scholarship. So I mostly ended up focusing on American scholarship on anime and manga, which then lead to a re-reading of Utena without the usual national and gender paradigms that people often used. Out of curiosity -- did you manage to find any crit on Utena? I'd love to see your project! Would it be possible to email it or something?
|
Rose Deo
Unregistered User
(8/28/03 2:44 pm)
|
Wow!
The level of knowledge that you guys have is pretty impressive.
Thanks so much for your help. I am busy trying to track down the
various suggestions to see if I can use them or not.
I find the whole area of japanese anime and manga fascinating ...wish I had enough time to explore it in more depth.
Rose
|
Nav
Unregistered User
(8/29/03 12:16 pm)
|
Mnemosynehime
I was looking forward to checking out your site (the title makes it sound interesting) but I get a "bandwith exceeded" notice). Do you think this will be temporary?
Yeah, outside of Japanese manga, Chinese graphic novels are much in vogue right now because of the Wuxia explosion after Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Not only is that story available (all of it, not just the film part), but many other classic Chinese stories previously hard to find in English. Some of them run for five or six thick books. These are more traditional than much manga, so if you are also interested in Chinese myth, legend, etc., these are worth checking out. If I was home I could give you the titles and publishers, but any extensive comic store should have them. If I get back here later I will provide these, unless someone else has the information. Some of these are great legendary classics, others are more recent. It usually gives the history of the story in the introductions.
|
Mnemosynehime
Registered User
(8/30/03 12:54 am)
|
re: Anime/Manga
Oh, pooh sticks, and I wanted to use free time to update this weekend.
Sorry about that, yes, the site should be back up Monday and running just fine.
I remember I saw the graphic novels for Crouching Tiger somewhere. Too, Korean graphic novels are growing in popularity as well. There are a couple coming out early next year I have my eye on.
Speaking of Chinese stories, I remember Rose wanted non-graphic novel text versions. Someone already mentioned Dragonball and Saiyuki; the Chinese epic Journey to the West might be one you want to hunt down. And I know this for sure is translated into English.
The September issue of Animerica just hit stands, you may want to look at this month's issue of the magazine. It focuses in on the shoujo genre (aka stories aimed at a female audience). Some of the old French fairy tales dealt with gender, and some of the titles spotlighted do too: Princess Prince by Tomoko Taniguchi, Princess Knight by Osamu Tezuka, and Utena. There's also a short bit under the main article Girl Power! with the header The Fairytale Redefined. I don't know if it's want you want for your study, Rose, but might be worth a look.
Oyceter, I haven't read House of the Sleeping Beauties. What is it about?
As for Utena, nope, I never did find any critiques on it as far as scholarly work aka published in a scholarly magazine or such. But then again, at the time, I didn't see too much concerned with anime and manga period besides what Susan Napier and others had published (and worse, most of it doesn't deal too much with shoujo work). Instead, I focused on Zipes and others, and took an approach from what had been done as far as fairy tale scholarship. And I got hooked on Marie von Franz's work and bought all the fairy tale related books I could find from her.
I'm not happy at all anymore with I wrote back then for my seminar (too much research since then), but the pieces I did like I kept and you can find the snippets in my Utena section on the site. I still have to add the Devil/Trickster page though, and want to add one comparing the Fool or Innocent type hero. When I get more time I'll try to rewrite and expand the fairy tale pages, but for now most of the gist stuff is there.
|
Rose Deo
Unregistered User
(9/3/03 2:43 pm)
|
Thanks!
Hi all
Sorry about the delay in my replies .... my husband accidentally
exceeded our cable internet quota and we got dropped down to a 22.2
K modem speed for a while. Don't know how we ever got anything done
pre-cable days SOOO incredibly slow!
Anyway, now that things are back to normal, will look up your references.
Rose
|
cyllan
Unregistered User
(9/4/03 3:03 pm)
|
Anime & Fairy Tales
Many have mentioned Miyazaki already but specifically, I would recommend Pom Poko. The story focuses on a group of Tanuki (shape-shifting badgers) and their struggle to keep the humans from destroying all their homes. Also brings in Kitsune (shape-shifting foxes) and very much on the theme of man against nature and the consequences and losses suffered by both sides.
Carisa
|
Nav
Unregistered User
(9/5/03 1:08 am)
|
Of all of Miyazaki's stuff...
Pom Poko seems hardest to find. I have read about it in his bio, but can't find the video anywhere. Any suggestions?
|
Niniane
Sunyata
Registered User
(9/11/03 3:16 am)
|
Re: RE: Anime & Fairy Tales
Hi Mnemosynehime,
Just visited your anime-myth website and was quite impressed
Ayashi no Ceres: I enjoyed what they did with the myth of the celestial a.k.a, the robe being of so much power/importance that the loss of it enabled the setting up of aya's grandfather's dynasty, suggesting that part of her *essence* is in the robe. I've only watched about 6-7 episodes though, so am unsure of how the story continued on after that.
|
Mnemosynehime
Registered User
(9/11/03 2:30 pm)
|
Re: RE: Anime & Fairy Tales
Sadly, I can't remember any company with plans as of yet to license
Pom Poko and release it in English. There is though, import versions
of the original available. Nausicaa.net has the details: www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/video/pompoko/
Niniane, thank you. Ceres is interesting isn't it? It'll get even deeper into just how powerful that robe is and how important it is to the tennyo's existence as the series continues. I'm reading another series by the author of Ceres right now called Alice 19th. It's a bit of a mix between Eastern philosophy/Teutonic rune lore and Carroll's Alice in the human heart instead of Wonderland. Fun stuff.
Anime-Myth.com
"I may be a woman, but I'm a warrior." ~ Oscar Francois de Jarjayes |
Niniane
Sunyata
Registered User
(9/11/03 5:42 pm)
|
Re: RE: Anime & Fairy Tales
Aha, I'll have to catch the rest of the episodes when AXN-asia repeats
the anime again (they've done so twice but the timing was a little
inconvenient for me). The celestial's need to recover her robe (apart
from interesting correlation w/ selkie stories) reminded me a little
of other mythic/folkloric tales in which magician/etc placed a part
of their being in some other object in order to remain immortal.
Kind of like Sauron's relationship w/ the "One Ring" too
I probably should have mentioned several posts ago that I'm sort of "new" here. Not sure of the protocol of things on this forum but it seemed pretty open so I jumped straight in.
Edited by: Niniane Sunyata at: 9/11/03 5:43 pm
|
|
