|
Author
|
Comment
|
claire1983
Unregistered User
(10/18/03 9:20 am)
|
fairy tale parents
I am doing my dissertation on parents in three fairy tales: Cinderella, Snow White and Hansel and Gretel. I was wondering if anyone could suggest theorists to read or websites to visit. I have already looked at Jack Zipes, Maria Tatar and Marina Warner. I am particularly interested in step-mothers and the silent father at the moment. But any other suggestions on focusing my dissertation would be gladly welcomed. Thanks in advance!
|
Terri
Registered User
(10/19/03 1:33 am)
|
Re: fairy tale parents
Have you read Angela Carter's story "Ashputtle: or, The Mother's Ghost"?
|
Niniane
Sunyata
Registered User
(10/19/03 5:26 am)
|
Re: fairy tale parents
That's an excellent text. I've used it in my (yet to be submitted)
M.A. dissertation on Carter
Anita Harris.
Terra Mythogene
www.mythopoetica.com
|
janeyolen
Registered User
(10/19/03 5:42 am)
|
Re: fairy tale parents
Please look at my book done with my daughter, called MIRROR, MIRROR: 40 folktales for mothers and daughters to share. They are all mother/daughter stories.
Jane
|
Jess
Unregistered User
(10/19/03 3:35 pm)
|
Beyond the traditional sources
Hi,
This is an interesting topic. Something that isn't usually discussed by fairy tale theorists is the effect of inheritance laws on the second families, although it is certainly dealt with in the fairy tales themselves. It has always been a question of mine whether the stepmothers were acting in their own children's best interest from a financial standpoint. I know France has some pretty bizarre inheritance laws, and depending upon when the went into effect, some of the stories might have contained subtle commentary on this - thinking Cinderella here. I once did a project creating a life estate for the husband of a French woman in her property and learned a little about division of real property acquired by inheritance - it was quite different than U.S. law. I can't help wondering if the protections that now exist with sometimes strange results weren't a reaction to something older and more harsh. A dominant step-mother could perhaps have "rid herself" of the competing child/ren.
Hansel and Gretel and Snow White seem to be quite different tales at least from that perspective, especially Snow White. Hansel and Gretel may contain some of that - get rid of the first family and the children of the second inheret and protect their mother's life interest?
Ponderings,
Jess
|
Jess
Unregistered User
(10/19/03 8:28 pm)
|
I just wanted to add
that I like your choices of tales since you potentially hit three different social classes by the tales you have selected. The reasons for the absent/silent fathers might vary greatly depending upon the class as well.
Jess
|
aka
Greensleeves
Registered User
(10/27/03 11:32 am)
|
Re: I just wanted to add
Jess, your approach to this issue fascinates me. I'm currently working
on a project that hinges on inheritance laws, and I've been using
Black's Law Dictionary (which explains a lot of English
Common Law) as a primary resource. I'd be interested in any other
leads you might have on this subject.
Anyone else have thoughts on inheritance, family law, and fairy tales?
Stephanie
in the prairie
|
Heidi
Anne Heiner
ezOP
(10/27/03 11:20 pm)
|
Re: I just wanted to add
Now this is an interesting topic and one that I have thought about while working on the annotations for Cinderella, Hansel and Gretel, and Snow White recently. Cinderella has a lot of inheritance issues which various versions have dealt with. One of the most visual that first sprang to mind was the battle for her mother's wedding dress in the film "Ever After."
Anyway, I don't have any good leads for discussions on inheritance and fairy tales, but I can say it is NOT addressed in Sharon Creeden's "Fair is Fair: World Folktales of Justice." Creeden's book is wonderful, but not helpful for this topic.
Heidi
|
Jess
Unregistered User
(10/28/03 11:56 am)
|
Haven't passed the pondering stage
With regards to the inheritance laws and folk/fairy tales, I haven't really gotten passed that pondering stage. Black's may not be the best resource for this as it tends to focus primarily on English/American common law. My guess is that you would need to look at the old Roman/French codes. One of the things I vaguely recall from my research about French inheritance/intestate law was that property could not be passed in fee simple (complete title) to a spouse, but a spouse could be given a life interest with children as remaindermen. This had the effect of keeping the property within the bloodlines. I am not sure if this applied generally or only because the spouse in question was an alien.
Property was also actually divided among the remaindermen so that instead of say 18 people owning a intangible share of an acre, they would instead own 1/18th of the tangible portion of an acre. Large estates were thus divided into these microportions. It was quite bizarre.
Of course, it has been some 10 years since I worked on the project so I can't say that my memory is completely accurate. You would need to do your own research on this obviously.
Jess
|
RymRytr1
Registered User
(10/28/03 2:22 pm)
|
Re: Haven't passed the pondering stage
Remember too that in the days when one man (or occasionally, a woman)
was King (or Queen), well before the Magna Carta, "they"
held absolute control of their Kingdom. If these tales go far enough
back, one might enter that era where the ruler was never answerable
to anyone but him/her self! Sleeping Beauty, being the Daughter
of a Royal Pair is the best set for inhertance here, but Snow White?
Was she royal or a commoner? As for Hansel and Gretel, they were
not in a position to demand any extra considerations. If the wife
of a poor man remained alive after his death, she was automatically
entitled to anything she might get her hands upon, but the "Crown"
was in control and often, lands of this nature were taken in by
the Crown, if not already owned by them or one of their lessers,
such as direct relatives, Barons and such. It was not uncommon for
the King to take even the lands of a well-to-do Baron and (if he,
the land owner) didn't have to big of an "army") give
it to someone else, in exchange for his "loyalties". Private
ownership of land by a Woodcutter was rare. These people lived upon
the land of others and at the landowners allowance, in exchange
for work and supplies put into the landowners sheds. No commoner
was allowed to appeal to the king directly. And as for the chruch,
that too, often ruled in favor of the Gentry, in exchange for title
to their own lands and Serfs. H & G had nothing to inherite
except further poverty, ill health and hard work!
|
Jess
Unregistered User
(10/28/03 10:36 pm)
|
Of course
You are right with respect to early, early tales. What I have been wondering is the impact of inheritence laws on the emerging Bourgeoisie/Merchant class post Magna Carta. Considering the time perior of the French Salon writers, they would have been interested in the impact of the laws on this new class of citizens, and quite possibly could have included their view points in their stories through characterizations.
I believe Snow White was nobility. Hansel and Gretel clearly were serfs or peasants. In some ways though the peasants while not having "rights" had so little but the right to serve the master on a particular plot of land. That right might be secured by the children of the dying serf provided they, the children, were productive. Personal property, while not "owned" by them, would be of little value to the master and thus would have "passed down" not by legal right but by tradition.
Jess
|
