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Author
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Comment
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Nancy
Varian
Registered User
(11/16/03 5:33 pm)
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The Soul of Faerie
Greetings, all.
I've been a lurker for a while, enjoying the conversation very much. I'd like to pop up my head now to pose a question to the general wisdom: What is the origin of the notion that the faerie folk have no souls?
I played a riff on the idea some years ago in my short story, "The Rusty Smith and Faer Linden", but in that story I treated the soulless state of the faerie folk as a given. I'm working on a novel now, and it won't do to treat the matter as a given. Can anyone point me to references, or make a suggestion?
Many thanks!
Nance
Edited by: Nancy Varian at: 11/18/03 4:04 pm
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Jessica
Unregistered User
(11/16/03 6:04 pm)
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A Response
Dear Nancy:
I don't remember where I read this, though I distinctly remember it coming up while researching selkies for something a long time ago (so it is likely to be an Orkney take on the matter), but the way I remember it:
I don't remember where I read this, though I distinctly remember it coming up while researching selkies for something a long time ago (so it is likely to be an Orkney take on the matter).
The fey, both of the sea (selkies, etc.) and of the land (brownies, etc.), were the angels who didn't side with Lucifer OR with God and so were cast down, but not quite as down as Hell. They became the soulless fey spirits, immortal but without a soul, so without a chance at redemption.
I'm not great on Judeo-Christian lore, but I don't think that angels were ever seen as having souls - that might be an honor distinctly reserved for mankind.
Maybe that helps?
--Jessica
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Nancy
Varian
Registered User
(11/16/03 9:31 pm)
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Re: A Response
Dear Jessica,
Thanks so much! I haven't heard that particular story, but it is enchanting. I think it might work well with what I'm trying to put together now.
Ah ... I forsee another lovely bout of research coming on. I think
I'll Google on "selkie" first.
Best,
Nance
Edited by: Nancy Varian at: 11/18/03 4:02 pm
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gormghlaith
Registered User
(11/17/03 6:54 pm)
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Re: The Soul of Faerie
Fallen angels. In the lore of Scandinavia, Scotland, and Ireland, when God cast out the arrogant angels from heaven, they became the evil spirits that plague mankind, tormenting us and inflicting us with harm. The ones who fell into hell and into caves and abysses became devils and death-maidens. However, those who fell onto the earth became goblins, imps, dwarfs, thumblings, alps, noon-and-evening-ghosts, and will-o'-the-wisps. Those who fell into the forests became the wood-spirits who live there: the hey-men, the wild-men, the forest-men, the wild-women, and the forest-women. Finally, those who fell into the water became water spirits: water-men, mermaids, and merwomen. These angels were condemned to remain where they were, becoming the faeries of seas and rivers, the earth, and the air.
According to faerie.monstrous.com/orig...airies.htm
fairies origintated from:
The souls of dead pagans. Like vampires, the fairies were believed to be originally the souls of the pagan dead. Since the pagans are unbaptized, they are neither considered good enough to go to heaven nor bad enough to go to hell. They are therefore caught in a netherworld, becoming faeries.
According to the Eddas (Norse), the elves are the worms that went out from the corpse of the giant Ymir. There are two main races : the elves of night, and the elves of light. The latter became the allies of Odin against the Giants.
The children of Adam and Lilith / Adam and Eve. Before living Adam for Lucifer, Lilith begot a few monsters called faeries in Greece and Scandinavia. In Norse folklore.
According to a scandinavian myth, Eve went on to have a multitude of children after Cain, Abel, and Seth. Once upon a time, God Almighty came to visit Adam and Eve. They received him with joy, and showed him everything they had in the house. They also brought their children to him, to show him, and these he found promising and full of hope. Then he asked Eve whether she had no other children than these whom she now showed him. She said "None." But it so happened that she had not finished washing them all, and, being ashamed to let God see them dirty, had hidden the unwashed ones. This God knew well, and said therefore to her, "What man hides from God, God will hide from man." These unwashed children became forthwith invisible, and took up their abode in mounds, and hills, and rocks. From these are the elves descended, but we men from those of Eve's children whom she had openly and frankly shown to God. And it is only by the will and desire of the elves themselves that men can ever see them.
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Nancy
Varian
Registered User
(11/17/03 7:12 pm)
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Re: The Soul of Faerie
Quote:
Fallen angels. In the lore of Scandinavia, Scotland, and Ireland, when God cast out the arrogant angels from heaven, they became the evil spirits that plague mankind, tormenting us and inflicting us with harm. The ones who fell into hell and into caves and abysses became devils and death-maidens. However, those who fell onto the earth became goblins, imps, dwarfs, thumblings, alps, noon-and-evening-ghosts, and will-o'-the-wisps. Those who fell into the forests became the wood-spirits who live there: the hey-men, the wild-men, the forest-men, the wild-women, and the forest-women. Finally, those who fell into the water became water spirits: water-men, mermaids, and merwomen. These angels were condemned to remain where they were, becoming the faeries of seas and rivers, the earth, and the air.
Thanks! This is becoming a fascinating line of inquiry. This morning, a friend sent an e-mail saying that she'd read that in the Middle East the jinn are considered to be the uncommitted fallen angels. Like elves or faeries, they are sometimes helpful and sometimes not so helpful.
Thanks, too, for the link. It looks like it'll be very interesting.
Best,
Nance
Edited by: Nancy Varian at: 11/18/03 4:03 pm
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Niniane
Sunyata
Registered User
(11/18/03 7:05 am)
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Re: The Soul of Faerie
While not extensive and probably not directly answering your question, I've written a short essay/article on the origins of Faerie. One point of note I've come across via my research/reading is that faeries have also been associated with the souls of the dead. Didn't go into it at much depth in this article (and haven't had the time to beef it up) but there's a list of Works Cited which might help:
Hybrid
Enigmas: An Exploration into Faerie
Anita Harris.
Terra Mythogene
www.mythopoetica.com
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Nancy
Varian
Registered User
(11/18/03 4:12 pm)
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Re: The Soul of Faerie
Thanks for the link! I went by this morning and it's an attractive and interesting site. The information was quite helpful.
I'm enjoying this trek into the history of angels and faerie. The process of shaping images and motifs down the ages is fascinating.
Sort of off the topic, but not really, here is a link to a news story I found on-line this morning. All by accident, or coincidence. It has to do with myth building and tale telling. As this is a reprint, some of you might have seen it before; but it was new to me. Gotta warn you though, it's a heart wrenching story.
www.miaminewtimes.com/iss...ature.html
-- Nance
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Nancy Virginia Varian
(nvberberick.com) |
bielie
Unregistered User
(11/18/03 4:22 pm)
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Andersen and faeriesouls
The little mermaid did not have a soul, because she was not human. A soul is something that only humans have. By sacrificing her life to save the life of an undeserving human she earns immortality.
It is interesting that most people regard humans as the mortals and faeries as the immortals. Andersen regarded humans as the immortals since they have souls. When mermaids die it's over.
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janeyolen
Registered User
(11/18/03 5:22 pm)
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others
You might also want to check the Nicks or Nekk, water spirits. there's an old story about boys teasing a Nekk saying it would never get to Heaven and a priest agreeing, saying "Sooner would my staff grow leaves." And of course immediately his staff blossomed and the Nekk
dove back into the water.
German and Northern spirits.
Jane
See my book THE FISH PRINCE & OTHER MERMAN TALES
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Rosemary
Lake
Registered User
(11/19/03 1:57 am)
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C.S. Lewis's THE DISCARDED IMAGE
[[ The fey, both of the sea (selkies, etc.) and of the land (brownies, etc.), were the angels who didn't side with Lucifer OR with God and so were cast down, but not quite as down as Hell. They became the soulless fey spirits, immortal but without a soul, so without a chance at redemption.]]
My favorite overview on Christian (and some Classical) lore of this sort if C. S. Lewis's THE DISCARDED IMAGE.
[[ I'm not great on Judeo-Christian lore, but I don't think that angels were ever seen as having souls - that might be an honor distinctly reserved for mankind. ]]
I thought (Christian) angels WERE souls, more or less. I thought the question about them was whether they had bodies. :-)
R.
Edited by: Rosemary Lake at: 11/19/03 1:58 am
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Niniane
Sunyata
Registered User
(11/19/03 7:39 am)
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Re: The Soul of Faerie
You're welcome
This is an interesting thread.
Anita Harris.
Terra Mythogene
www.mythopoetica.com
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