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Author
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Comment
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AlisonPegg
Registered User
(5/6/03 9:10 am)
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The Norns
Does anyone know anything about the Norns in Norse Mythology? Their names were Urd (Fate) Skuld (Necessity) and Verdandi (Being) I'd really like to know more about the significance of the names and just exactly what they imply. What do people take to be the difference between Fate and Necessity for example? And what powers did each have exactly?
Alison
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ZMethos
Registered User
(5/6/03 1:49 pm)
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Re: The Norns
I don't really know about the names, but I do know they were used in the Japanese anime "Oh! My Goddess!" in which they're portrayed as three goddesses. (Although "Verdandi" became "Belldandy" possibly because there is no "v" in Japanese.)
~M. Pepper
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denag
Registered User
(5/6/03 2:34 pm)
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trinities
does anyone know...
...are these at all comparable to the various trinities that occur in greek mythology (eg 3 fates, goddess as nymph/mother/crone, etc...), and christian theology?
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Laura
McCaffrey
Registered User
(5/6/03 4:21 pm)
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Re: norns
Alison -
I don't know a lot. I do know they are mentioned in various Norse and Scandanavian sagas.
My Wordsworth Dictionary of Phrase and Fable has a section on them. It says they lived at the foot of Yggdrasil, the ash-tree. They watered the tree daily from Urd, the fountain. It also says theses sisters EVENTUALLY became three in number in imitation of the three fates of classical legend.
LauraMc
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spideri
Registered User
(5/6/03 6:56 pm)
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norns
Juicy topic.
In Apulias's (sp?) Golden Ass, the Greco-Roman history of heaven, Psyche must resist the appeal of the Fates (Eirinae) (sp?), three old weaving women, who sit by the well of Hades's Underworld realm, and spin, measure, and cut the length of each life. Psyche hurries on past them without stopping to ask for the elixir of dreams from Persephone, reluctant Queen of the Dead.
In Monica Soo's 'The Great Cosmic Mother,' there's mention of the primordial Earth deaity, the Triple Goddess - Mother Maiden Crone - which the later male triumverates buried and on which they built their own threesomes.
Weaving and spinning are also attributes of the Spider Woman of Native North America. She leads, weaves, and destroys worlds on the upwards journey of evolution.
PS: Re:Wm. Bennet: USA Policy Kingpin & Tzar of Moral Virtues for Children: Spider Woman taught that there are four evils which lead to a cultures destruction: Fight, Hate, Hoard, and GAMBLE.
Cheers,
Beatrice
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denag
Registered User
(5/7/03 5:55 am)
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threes again - sorry to obsess
so what is it with threes? i confess to fascination.
other 3-associations in writing (and some that just appeal to me):
3-wishes in fairy tales
3-brothers/sisters in fairy tales
3-legged stool - minimum number of legs required for stability
love-triangles
basic structure of argument: if-then-therefore
basic structure of narrative: beginning-middle-end
2 polar opposites and middle path
(also, I just saw tomb-raider movie - all about a triangle, well all about Lara really, but a triangular McGuffin in there too - not sure if this story pure hollywood concoction, but fun to speculate all the same)
are any (all) these threes related in some way? do 3's in stories/mythology represent some weird natural quality of the number that appeals, possibly unconsciously?
or is it more to do with historical associations, like Robert Graves talks about the significance of the unlucky number 13 being related to leap years (i think!)
...i ramble. but if anyone has thoughts in response, i'd love to read them.
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AlisonPegg
Registered User
(5/7/03 7:01 am)
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Urd as the fountain?
What a wealth of responses! You are brilliant all of you. It's a bit like consulting the oracle at Delphi this!!!
Can I ask you, Laura ,for a bit more about Urd as a fountain? I wonder if the others - Skuld and Verdandi also were associated with objects or particular attributes. I know that, like the Fates, the Norns are also supposed to spin the thread of life. But what about Yggdrasil - the world tree? Is this just like the tree of life or does it have a different sigificance?
Alison
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Laura
McCaffrey
Registered User
(5/7/03 3:50 pm)
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Re: Urd as the fountain?
Alison -
I just know very basic stuff. Urd's Well sits under one of Yggdrasil's
roots. I think the Norns sit near the Urd's Well, in general, and
use it to protect the tree. For more on Norns: www.pantheon.org/articles/n/norns.html
Yggdrasil is a major tree in Scandinavian mythology. It binds together
all nine worlds; those of the dead, fire, humans, frost-giants,
light elves, dwarves, dark elves, Vanir gods, and Aesir gods. Various
of its parts, branches and roots, stretch into various worlds. Animals
sit in it, representing things like the four winds. A serpant gnaws
one of its roots. A squirrel travels back and forth between the
animals and gossips. The trumpet that will announce the last battle,
which will destroy all the worlds, sits in another well, Mirmir's
Well, beneath another of its roots. For more on Yggdrasil: www.pantheon.org/articles...rasil.html
For some sites with Norse mythology or links, go to:
members.bellatlantic.net/.../myth.html
www.pantheon.org/areas/my...icles.html
Hope some of this helps.
LauraMc
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AlisonPegg
Registered User
(5/7/03 11:22 pm)
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Wonderful!
Thank you so much for all that. I didn't know there was so much in it. Absolutely brilliant!
Alison
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Rosemary
Lake
Registered User
(5/10/03 7:50 pm)
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Linking all worlds....
[[[ Various of its parts, branches and roots, stretch into various worlds. ]]]
Thanks for the description. I'm fascinated by the idea of it linking all the different kinds of worlds. I imagine tree creatures like the squirrel being able to pass freely among heavens and hells.... That could symbolize animal or physical life being the same, tho people have different perceptions and projections, different people seem to live in different worlds....
Speaking of linking worlds, I have a magic land that long ago was put under a curse of always sharing a common border with every other fantasy land. Was there any such place in myth, a shifting land or floating island ... or floating archipellago(sp?)? Not a cloud-island, I think. Some of its mountains are very heavy and deep ... so deep and solid that they can move through the ocean floor as through mud.... Haven't got a good name for it yet.
Rosemary
www.rosemarylake.com
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