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Author
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Comment
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shiara
the witch
Registered User
(3/12/03 2:22:41 pm)
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time period
what time period do most fairy tale take place? medieval, rennasaince, 18th century? Also what time period did the balls come into play. from my limited medieval knowledge, i think they had no big celebrations. or am i wrong? im so confused! help me please!
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Helen
Registered User
(3/12/03 7:19:06 pm)
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It depends...
Dear Leah/Shiara:
Well, it all depends on *which* fairy tales you have in mind. Like today's urban fantasy, most fairy tales reflected the settings of the teller ... so the contes de fees, for example, reflect 17th century France. Many of the Victorian fairy tales are very self-consciously set in amalgamated times and places that derive partially from the pastoral settings of Greek myth, partially from the cities of Basile and Strapparola, partially from the splendid courts of the contes de fees, and partially from whatever native folktale struck their fancy. Russian fairy tales can be infuriating because of their entirely oral origins, pre-collection: unlike the archivists of many other nations, Russian folklorists (Afanasyev & co.) chose not to edit heavily. So there are a lot of tantalizing bits that hint at pre-christian rituals, which could put them anywhere during the last thousand odd years, depending on their specific locale. As for the balls ... there were many festivals during the medieval period (tourneys, etc.) but the kind of ball that I think you're thinking of (Cinderella losing a slipper?) were popularized by the authors of the contes de fees, for the most part. [Note: I am generalizing ... the Italian fairy tales had some balls, as do Russian fairy tales - though those may have been added in after international crosshatching - one reason that this is a tough question can be explained by something that Jane said on another thread a few months ago, about how tales are tricksy critters, always crossing borders. They don't really observe chronology too well either ...] Sigh ... I realize that this sounds a little scattered, but I hope it helps.
Best,
Helen
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swood
Unregistered User
(3/13/03 6:46:02 am)
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History of Dance
Leah,
You might want to look at some resources on the history of dance to clarify what you mean by ball. As long as there have been stories, there has been music. As long as there has been music, there has been dance. Dance can have ritual (religious) or social significance.
There are societies that specialize in recreating dances from across history. That can be a great way of learning about dance, either from watching or participating.
The waltz (which is what many of us think of when we picture Cinderella sweeping across the floor) emerged in the early 19C, though I once saw an exhibition on Baroque dancing that featured partners doing complicated lifts of the female partner in her full 18C regalia!
Sarah
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Jess
Unregistered User
(3/13/03 7:27:32 am)
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Balls
Leah, et.al.,
Boy, I read the Odyssey last year and I believe there were several occassions that might have been described as a ball. There were feasts with people's hands annointed in scented water followed by music and dancing. I am trying to think where this was in the book. At the time I was fascinated by the handwashing procedure which is why it left an impression.
If you want to read a description of an actual late Rennaissance/Early Baroque ball, you may want to read reports of the debut of Orfeo by Monteverdi, which was performed in 1607. The opera is also interesting as it has a "Greek" wedding celebration in it, and thus, you can get an idea of what the Early Baroque Italians thought a Greek "ball" might be like.
Jess
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Laura
McCaffrey
Registered User
(3/13/03 5:59:02 pm)
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Re: Balls
I'd never really thought of balls so specifically. All this info is quite interesting. As I read fairy tales, I'd always thought of balls as royal parties. This thread reminded me, however, that the dance parties in Jane Austen's stories - public and private, held in rural English towns and having nothing to do with royalty - are called balls.
Don't know if this helps any, but interesting.
Laura Mc
Edited by: Laura McCaffrey at: 3/13/03 6:01:32 pm
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Jess
Unregistered User
(3/13/03 8:41:49 pm)
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Feasts and balls
Leah,
In her book, Food in History, Reay Tannahill describes some marvelous feasts from the late medieval table "sweets, jellies or pastries moulded into splendid and fanciful representations of lions, eagles, crown or coats of arms". She also talks about spun sugar sculptures and other highly ornamented foods. It stands to reason that such a feast would be accompanied by costumed attendees, possibly dancing? How large the group? I wonder. I'll bet we could find out more on medieval "balls" with a bit of research.
The Oxford Dictionary defines ball as "a social assembly for the purpose of dancing" and cites the first written usage as 1632.
Jess
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Jess
Unregistered User
(3/15/03 8:39:23 pm)
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Moving backwards
This website has a 1611 Italian/English dictionary in which they
use the word ball in the English description of the dance term.
www.pbm.com/~lindahl/florio/
On the same page it is interesting to note that the Italian word for dance teacher and the person who "guides a bride to her husband" is the same word (with slightly different spelling or the same spelling).
Let's see what else I can come up with.
Jess
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Jess
Unregistered User
(3/15/03 8:48:42 pm)
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This website
Well, the letters of Dance website seems to have a lot about the
history of Italian dance. Here is an interesting one about the 14th
C. www.pbm.com/~lindahl/lod/...balli.html
There is an interesting section of the article about Italian Society and dancing. I like this article because it has reference sources if someone would like to research farther.
Jess
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Jess
Unregistered User
(3/15/03 8:56:43 pm)
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A Huge list of resources
This lists resources (primary) for dance in Europe in the 15th and 16th C. and includes document abstracts from Germany, Spain, France, Italy and I believe England. Very interesting for dance history researchers (or curiosity seekers like yours truly).
www.pbm.com/~lindahl/lod/...iblio.html
I am done with Renaissance. Let's see whether I can find anything
medieval. :D
Jess
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Jess
Unregistered User
(3/15/03 9:29:36 pm)
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A different resource
This is another interesting site with resources. Of particular interest is the section on Writing Dance History, which references and abstracts a 3-volume set written in 1764 about dance history from the Greek and Romans to the Conte-de-fees. This document might be of interest to fairy tale readers and writers as it would have covered the period French salon writers, and while not quite contemporary, may reflect much of the same ideas.
Jess
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Jess
Unregistered User
(3/15/03 9:30:42 pm)
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Oops
I left out the site: memory.loc.gov/ammem/diht...ssay0.html
Jess
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Jess
Unregistered User
(3/16/03 8:32:37 am)
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Some more
Available from Amazon:
Courtly Dance of the Renaissance: A New Translation of Noblita de Dame.
and
French Court Dance and Dance Music: A Guide to Primary Source Writings, 1643-1789 (Dance and Music Series, No 1)
by Judith L. Schwartz, Christena L. Schlundt
You might also try the website for the Society of Dance History
Scholars: www.sdhs.org/index.html
Good luck!
Jess
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shiara
the witch
Registered User
(3/16/03 8:44:08 am)
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WOW
Thanks a million everyone! All those websites are great. I tried
to find some websites on google, but was unable to, so your websites
are a real life saver. I am attempting to write a fairy tale retelling
of snow white, but am at a loss of what time period it should be
based off of. I am pretty sure that I will use medieval, because
I know the most about it, but I am not positive yet.
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