|
Author
|
Comment
|
harleygirl
Registered User
(6/25/03 5:24 pm)
|
Opinions on a graphic novel in progress
It was suggested that I start a new topic to ask this so here goes:
I am in the middle of creating a graphic novel of old fairy tales with a different artist doing each tale and have ended up with more artists than I have chosen tales so far and I wanted opinions on additional stories. The original concept was to use mostly tales that everyone thought they knew and show them earlier versions (Red Riding Hood becomes Little Red Hat, Sleeping Beauty becomes Sun, Moon and Talia, Three Bears has the old woman instead of Goldilocks, etc.). I am not sure now whether to stick with this concept or add in more lesser known tales (Bearskin, The Boy Who Had Never Seen a Woman, etc). I think I know which most people here would like to see, but what do you think about the general public? Or does the general public matter so much since the people here would probably be the main audience?
Also appreciated would be suggestions for a title of the book. I am thinking of "Dark Beginnings: Rare Tales and Obscure Stories You Thought You Knew" but am not sure if it sounds too much like a literary journal entry.
Thanks,
Donna
|
Jess
Unregistered User
(6/25/03 7:38 pm)
|
Just curious
Donna,
Have you asked the artists? I wonder if some might enjoy illustrating obscure tales, while some might like to play with lesser known versions of older tales. I kind of like the idea of a mix, but that is just my opinion.
It sounds like an interesting project.
Jess
|
harleygirl
Registered User
(6/25/03 7:54 pm)
|
Re: Just curious
I have asked for requests, but most of them just say "short".
:b They are busy. A few wanted specific stories, but most just said
"whatever you think will fit my style".
Right now it is a bit of a mix. There are a couple of obscure ones in there because I couldn't resist them (Death of the Seven Dwarves for one).
I'm definitely having fun!!
Donna
|
Charles Vess
Unregistered User
(6/26/03 8:03 am)
|
Earlier adaptations of Grimm's...
Donna,
Sounds like an interesting project.
Have you seen a copy of THE BIG BOOK OF GRIMM (Paradox Press)? Written by Jonathan Vankin and illustrated by a whole host of artists. They are all short adaptations of the unexpergated tales from Grimm. Some are good, some are not so good. I did the art on the 5 page SNOW WHITE tale.
There is also a much harder to find (but well worth the effort) collection of fairy tales/folk tales and biblical stories written and drawn by Japanese artist's Ottomo (of AKIRA fame). Great drawing and VERY bizarre slants on the European tales.
Good luck with your book.
Charles
|
harleygirl
Registered User
(6/27/03 3:09 pm)
|
Re: Earlier adaptations of Grimm's...
Charles,
I have the Big Book of Grimm (and many other Big Books - I love them). While I did like the way it came out, I think they had problems selling because of the size. Hard to fit on a shelf. I am using older versions of the stories they have and many stories they don't.
The other book you mentioned I have been looking for since... well since last year's Heroes Con. Hard to find doesn't begin to describe it.
Right now Paul Chadwick, Gene Gonzales and Richard Case are working on their sample pages and Michael Avon Oeming is reading over the script for the Death of the Seven Dwarves. Should have something to show around to publishers in a few months hopefully.
BTW, did you get my email?
Donna
|
disneychic
Unregistered User
(6/29/03 4:10 pm)
|
your story
hey, i think that its a cool idea to have older versions. i think you might get more readers if you use the more known versions. if you use the older ones, the more gruesome tales might not be such a shock. it would be cool if you could have the known characters interact also for a twist...
good luck
|
duglis
Registered User
(6/29/03 4:20 pm)
|
re:
or you could simply make sure you have the classic
cinderella and/or puss n boots from perrault so that you'll
get sales and the rest little known tales or early version
as you planned it in your first post.
That's how i would go!
Nice to meet you!
Douglas
|
harleygirl
Registered User
(6/29/03 6:17 pm)
|
The plan so far....
These are the stories I am planning on using:
Cenerentola (Pentamerone - Cinderella variant)
Gold-Tree and Silver-Tree (Celtic - Snow White variant)
The Wee Bannock (Gingerbread Man variant)
The Three Bears (Eleanor Mure version)
The Three Little Pigs (Flora Annie Steel version)
Gagliuso (Pentamerone - Puss in Boots variant)
Sun, Moon and Talia (Pentamerone - Sleeping Beauty variant)
Petrocinella (Pentamerone - Rapunzel variant)
Death of the Seven Dwarves (Swiss folk tale)
The Boy Who Had Never Seen a Woman (Decameron)
Snow White (Grimms 1812 version)
Little Red Hat (Italy/Austria Red Riding Hood)
I am also looking at a Beauty and the Beast type, Rumpelstiltskin type, Emperor's New Clothes type and Princess and the Pea type. Any other suggestions? Are there any relatively unknown ones that you would love to see? Are there any artists you want to see? I will do my best to get them.
Thanks, (and nice to meet you too, Douglas :D )
Donna
|
Jane Yolen
Unregistered User
(6/29/03 10:42 pm)
|
Art vs folk
Just to be sure you know: Emperor's New Clothes and Princess and the Pea were original stories, not folktales, by Hans Christian Andersen.
Jane
|
duglis
Registered User
(6/29/03 11:35 pm)
|
re:
Tom Tit Tot is a the famous Rumpelstilskin tale from
England :)
Awww...you should put in the normal Puss in Boots by
Perrault
hehe -Douglas
p.s. PIB is my fav fairy tale :)
Doug
|
Aisling
Rashel
Registered User
(6/30/03 6:08 pm)
|
re: the plan so far
This sounds like such an awesome/interesting project. I can't wait to see it in the future!
Have you seen the book Grimm's Grimmest? This might have a few you would be interested in. For a Beauty and the Beast variant, you should take a look at Eros and Psyche. It's a Greek myth, but closely related to Beauty and the Beast.
Edited by: Aisling Rashel at: 6/30/03 6:10 pm
|
harleygirl
Registered User
(6/30/03 6:30 pm)
|
Re: Art vs. Folk
Hi Jane,
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought Anderson's source for "Emperor" was a Spanish folktale. Anyway, I was planning on using an Indian version called "The King and the Clever Girl". And for the "Princess" I was thinking about using "The Most Sensitive Woman" an Italian version collected by Schneller.
Sorry about the PIB Doug, but I was trying to stay away from the versions most people know. Besides, I love the way the cat tells him off at the end. Such a mouth! (You know, I still remember the book I had of it when I was little. It was almost a picture book, all purples and blues and the cover was swirly purple. It always gave me the creeps, but I loved it!)
Donna
|
Charles Vess
Unregistered User
(7/1/03 6:25 am)
|
That Ottomo Fairy tale book...
Donna,
I'm told by those in the know that either Viz or Tokyo Pop (I can't remember which) is going to be publishing an English language translation of that Ottomo Fairy Tale collection in the near future.
That makes me very excited, indeed!!
I will try to gather news on it at San Diego in a few weeks.
Best,
Charles
|
Rosemary
Lake
Registered User
(7/1/03 9:13 pm)
|
Riding Hood, Name of the Helper
There are some wonderful pre-Rumpelstiltkins in Ashliman's "Name of the Helper" set at
www.pitt.edu/~dash/type0500.html
I've forgotten what happens in Red Hat. Are you going all the way back to a version where the girl escapes by saying she has to go to the bathroom? There was one like that on the net translated from an old French version. I might have a copy somewhere.
Calvino's version is "The False Grandmother". I have the Italian original and did a version also.
Rosemary
rosemarylake.com/vampire_...other.html
|
harleygirl
Registered User
(7/2/03 2:22 pm)
|
Re: Riding Hood, Name of the Helper
Little Red Hat is the one with the ogre who tricks Red into eating various parts of her grandmother before he eats her. (El Cappelin Rosso) I thought it was the most different from the usual (as well as disturbing, can't go wrong with shock value). I really liked the bathroom one too though.
I have been looking at Ashliman's site trying to decide which pre-Rumpelstiltskin to use. There are so many good ones. Suggestions?
Thanks,
Donna
|
harleygirl
Registered User
(7/2/03 2:25 pm)
|
Re: That Ottomo Fairy tale book...
That's really cool! I can't wait to see it.
And I'll see you at San Diego. My husband and I are going out there again this year to help run the booth for TwoMorrows. I love his job!!
Donna
|
Rosemary
Lake
Registered User
(7/2/03 2:53 pm)
|
Name of the Helper
Well, if it was my book, it probably wouldn't sell, because my motto tends to be "Where there's smoke, there's usually strawberry jello."
I might go for more than one pre-Rumpel. For perspective, "The Three Spinners". Then one of Ashliman's old English ones for a switch on ALL the features most people focus on in Rumpel. A female helper, heroine competent rather than terrified....
Of course some of these were probably not ancestors of the Grimms' Rumpel, but cousins.
I'd have to check them all again, but iirc most of them didn't have a baby. Iirc the one that did, had a competent middleaged heroine (and a female helper wanting the baby).
Probably too long for your book, but I liked the one that made it sort of a gothic novel, with a gentlemanly Devil in a manor house and iirc a middleaged heroine playing tricks on him.
Rosemary
|
Rosemary
Lake
Registered User
(7/2/03 2:58 pm)
|
bathroom Red Riding Hood
Actually I think the bathroom version also has her tricked into eating the parts of the grandmother, before she catches on and escapes.
I think it's in the original that Calvino and I both worked from (' l'orca' ) but we both left it out. I think it was in the online French version also.
R.
|
Rosemary
Lake
Registered User
(7/2/03 5:39 pm)
|
Old French version url
Here's the old French version. Its title is the same as Calvino's version, "The False Grandmother."
However 'l'orca', which Calvino worked from is much longer, and funny.
www.pitt.edu/~dash/type0333.html#france
|
Rosemary
Lake
Registered User
(7/2/03 5:59 pm)
|
Yet another version, same source
Here's another bathroom version, with the eating very short -- but this has a striptease.
Hm, both these are credited to the same page of MELUSINE; Ashliman's says it is 'retold'. Might be worth looking up the original, which might have more horrors yet. :-)
Iirc, 'l'orca' gets very detailed about the body parts, but lacks the striptease, and may have a female 'ogre' instead of male 'wolf/werewolf'.
www.hellhorror.com/werewo...s/hood.php
Told by Louis and Francois Briffault, at Montigny-aux-Amognes, Nièvre, about 1885. Published by A. Millien, Mèlusine 3 (1886-7), 428-9
www.pitt.edu/~dash/type0333.html#france
Source: Retold from A. Millien, Mélusine, v. 3
(1886-1887), col. 428-429.
Rosemary
|
harleygirl
Registered User
(7/3/03 5:53 pm)
|
Re: Yet another version, same source and the other posts
Wow,
That's a lot of info (and help). I really like the werewolf and striptease one. Unfortunately I have already sent off the script for the ogre version to the artist. However he is notoriously busy and may not have started on it yet. I will ask him and see if he wants to switch.
I am not sure about repeating the same story with the Rumpels. I don't want the book to get so thick it will price itself out. I am still trying to decide on those. There are so many good ones, it would be simpler to put in a couple.
I want to make the book a decent overview of what fairy tales used to be. I know that is asking a lot of a graphic novel. But I think the pictures will make it more accessible. And who knows if it does well, there might be interest in a second volume.
Thanks,
Donna
|
