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Author
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Comment
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Jess
Unregistered User
(7/30/03 1:18 pm)
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Humor
Alison,
I encourage you to reread the stories. I have been enjoying them immensely. Certainly, there are some stories I do not enjoy, but there are others that make me laugh aloud. I do think exposure to Italian humor helps - and no, there is no one type of humor that could encompase everyone in that culture, but I do think that there is something of a "sense of humor" in each and every culture, it is one of its defining characteristics. In America, for example, one could say that Americans tend to veer towards obvious humor - slapstick style, whether we are discussing language or physical humor. So, reread the stories and try to see if you can't see the humor in them.
Jess
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Rosemary
Lake
Registered User
(7/30/03 9:13 pm)
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misc
George Martin translated ITALIAN FOLKTALES. My public library had the Italian version also.
I'm no expert, but the style of the original of "L'orca" (Calvino's #116, my version is "The Vampire Grandmother") seems close to Calvino's and Martin's, as did a few other originals I looked at.
"El granzio" (Calvino's #30, my "The Enchanted Crab") had some bits of rich language, but it didn't remind me of the Perrault tradition.
What about comparing Manheim's translation of Grimm (which feels pretty spare and bare to me) with Lucy Crane's or the Lang version? Maybe Calvino is trying to do for his sources what Manheim did for the Grimm tales -- see Mannheim's "Translator's Preface."
Lang's version of "The Frog" at www.mythfolklore.net/andrewlang/055.htm
is cited by Gibbs as "from the Italian". She cites several
others as "from the Italian, Kletke." The list is at
www.mythfolklore.net/andr...htm#europe
-- scroll down to European.Italian.
It's been a while since I read (not Walter/Lucy's but) Thomas Frederick Crane's Italian tales. They were translated in the 1880s I think in a style similar to Lang's.
My impression is that Calvino was not trying to put any personal style or spin such as you describe on the tales overall, but just to make a representative scholarly selection and present them as close as possible to the 1880s folklore journal versions. If anything he added some literary touches.
I too love the Lang/Perrault treatment, style and rhythm of events etc, the conventions I grew up with -- which Max Luthi describes beautifully. At first it was hard for me to see Calvino's as 'fairy tales'/maarchen at all, and some of his I still can't see that way. But I suspect this treatment may be something that a few translators added, rather than something that Calvino (and Mannheim?) took away. See Calvino's note on #26 re Perrault's "ballet rhythm."
I wonder if early association has a lot to do with this feeling. I get it not just from the short "moralistic" tales but also somewhat from Cabinet des Fees, George MacDonald's "The Light Princess"....
Rosemary
www.rosemarylake.com
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Rosemary
Lake
Registered User
(7/30/03 9:20 pm)
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Afanasev story - blind man's buff with a bear
Helen,
If you have access to Afanasev in Russian, could you make me a copy of one story? In Pantheon it's titled "Daughter and Stepdaughter." It's a kind/unkind story about a girl who plays blind man's buff with a bear.
Rosemary
r@rosemarylake.com
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AlisonPegg
Registered User
(7/31/03 9:15 am)
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A brilliant discussion!
Very illuminating. What a brilliant discussion this has been. I'm most impressed at the in depth knowledge people here have of all the different translations. Thank you so much for sharing all that. I shall certainly reread these stories with new eyes.
All the best
Alison
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