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Author
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Comment
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court
Registered User
(9/22/02 4:23:30 pm)
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Rapunzel, Rapunzel...
I found something interesting while researching for a paper I'm writing on the symbolism found in Rapunzel. I'm sure some of you already knew this, but I just had to share. Rapunzel, of course, is the German word for rampion. German rampion is also known by another name: evening primrose. Evening primrose is a plant that grows to be ,on average, 5 feet tall and thus would "look down" on the rest of the garden. It has yellow flowers that only open up in the evening. Oh, and this might be a stretch, but, I know that evening primrose oil is used medicinaly to aid in digestive problems - something that a pregnant woman might have.
I thought I knew what Rapunzel was about: the dangers of selfishness and overprotective parenting. However, the more research I do, the more confused I become.
Why would anyone tell this story (bowdlerized version or not) to a child?
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Jess
Unregistered User
(9/22/02 5:41:27 pm)
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Rapunzel
You may have inadvertantly answered your own question. The beauty
of tales like Rapunzel is that they speak to us at different times
of our lives differently. As you quite accurately stated the story
is about selfishness and overprotective parenting, but now you see
something else in the story. As a parent, I see something different
again. Children will read into these stories what is relevant to
their lives, just as we adults do. That isn't to say that a precocious
child might not read into it what you have. Many fairy tales are
not really "for children", but are for a wider audience.
Just my thoughts.
Jess
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Jess
Unregistered User
(9/22/02 5:47:11 pm)
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One more thought
If you haven't already read it, you might find Kate Bernheimer's book "Mirror, Mirror on the Wall: Women Writers Explore Their Favorite Fairy Tales" of interest. It has at least one essay on Rapunzel. But what is interesting is the impact of various fairy tales, including some rather "adult" tales, on the then girls, now women writers.
Jess
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janeyolen
Unregistered User
(9/23/02 5:14:50 am)
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Other side of the story
My daughter talks about her reactions to this story in MIRROR, MIRROR: 40 Folktales for Mothers and Daughters to share. (Yolen and Stemple, Viking/Penguin) As an adoptive mother, whose adopted daughter is now 19, she has a LOT to say about the story from the witch's perspective. Oh my!
Jane
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court
Registered User
(9/23/02 6:43:31 am)
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Rapunzel, Rapunzel...
Thanks for the reply. Jess, I didn't mean that I thought any child
would have read into it what I did - except maybe a prodigy gardener.
I guess a child could relate to Rapunzel's curiousity and they could
certainly empathize with being kept indoors when they had so many
questions about that big world out there.
Thanks Jane, I will look for your book. I think that's why the witch isn't killed at the end of the story. Yes, she isolated Rapunzel from the world and tried to keep her for herself but her motive didn't stem solely from selfishness. The witch is maternal. If the witch was killed, then the motherly side of her would perish as well.
One last question: When the Prince is blinded after falling from the tower, does the Witch punish him for engaging in premarital sex or does society punish him?
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pinkolaestes
Registered User
(9/23/02 10:05:28 am)
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responses
Dear Jess: >>>>>>The beauty of tales like Rapunzel is that they speak to us at different times of our lives differently. As you quite accurately stated the story is about selfishness and overprotective parenting, but now you see something else in the story. As a parent, I see something different again. >>>>>>> lovely, lovely answer. Oh, if only the world could collectively realize such, what 'reasoned peace' we might have on earth.
Dear Court >>>>>>One last question: When the Prince is blinded after falling from the tower, does the Witch punish him for engaging in premarital sex or does society punish him? >>>>>>> I am wondering what you think? You have developed a good thesis about the tale, and expereinced the joy of exegeticl research, so now how do YOU see this part? (Just a tiny note, I asked my sources about primrose oil for a pregnant woman; the answer is it depends greatly on the condition of the woman, her month of gestation, especially her "bleeding history," and her history of miscarriage, and so on. I am sure on list here are many far more directly experienced in remedios than mi, but here in southwest, primrose oil is used for kidney probs and for eczema--but there are many kinds of primrose too) Court, you can literally sit in front of a primrose here in the high country desert and watch its beautiful ruffled yellow flowers open just after sunset. Emphasis on ruffled...(wink)
Dear Jane: I am writing an intro as we speak for someone else's book on "famous adoptees." Thank you for the reference in your work on adoption. ( and just as an aside, 'anyone' who has a parent, creates that 'good/not-so-hot' parent split. We, as children and as parents, just hope to wind up with a lot more on the side of useful than on the side of scary---well, now wait a minute, on second thought, scary is not all bad...I am willing to have my moments -----grin)
con cariņo
cpe
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Court
Unregistered User
(9/23/02 10:21:52 am)
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Rapunzel
cpe - I think I answered my question about who punished the prince. In the story (I don't know how I missed it), the witch tells the prince, "...the pretty bird has flown and its song is dumb; the cat caught it, and will scratch out your eyes too...". The Witch is being catty and thus scratches his eyes out by having the Prince land in the briar patch. Society never punishes him for the premarital sex. I looked up info on primrose oil and pregnant women too. However, now I have a new thought. It says at the beginning of the story that the couple was childless (meaning she is incapable?). Maybe the woman only becomes pregnant after the husband makes the deal with the witch. So, the rampion that she digests becomes (thanks to the witch) the rampion (Rapunzel) that the woman then gives birth to.
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Lotti
Unregistered User
(9/24/02 9:28:31 am)
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Rapunzel
Dear court,
I hope you won't consider me a spoilsport - but actually Rapunzel is not the flower you describe, but a salad. Rapunzel being a colloquial/ regional term for "Feldsalat" which my favourite online dictionary www.leo.org calls
corn salad [bot.] Lat.: Valerianella locusta
field salad [bot.]
lamb's lettuce [bot.]
Where I come from (actually deep in Brother Grimm country - close to Hanau where they were born), we also call that salad "Mausohrsalat", mouse-ear salad because of the form of the leaves.
It is, and has been since childhood, my favourite salad! Wish it was't so hard to clean... But it grows rather well in our area and it is a salad that is harvested in the late autumn and winter, which I found always signifikant regarding the fairy tale. I always found it plausible and matter-of-fact rather than symbolic that the pregnant woman would want some fresh salad and thus, vitamins, when none would be available otherwise... At least that was my interpretation, I can't remember that the tale states a season.
Hope you don't mind my correction (so typicallyGerman, hey? Can't help it, I guess).
Best regards!
Lotti
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Celestial
Registered User
(9/24/02 3:41:04 pm)
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Rapunzel
yes, in Jutta Ash's Rapunzel (Andersen Press 1982), it's a type of lettuce.
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janeyolen
Unregistered User
(9/25/02 2:42:45 am)
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0nion?
Have also heard it's a kind of onion (rampion).
Jane
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Celestial
Registered User
(9/26/02 4:32:25 pm)
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Garlic?
I found Rapunzel story yesterday, where the Rapunzel was
Garlic!
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