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Author
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Comment
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Jane Yolen
Unregistered User
(7/19/02 7:24:16 am)
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Public Domain illos
I am trying to ascertain at what point certain illustrations are considered public domain for use in my FAIRY TALE FEASTS project. 1890s? 1920s? Does anyone know for certain?
Thanks for the help,
Jane
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Jess
Unregistered User
(7/19/02 7:32:46 am)
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Copyright
Jane,
That can be a confusing question since the old U.S. copyright law was the life of the author (illustrator) plus a period of years, 75 comes to mind, but I am not sure if that was with a renewal. Of course, many were not renewed. It was a bit of a problem to manage since the copyright period was indefinite. You may need to check with the original copyright holders, if possible. I don't know about those under European copyright.
The U.S. law changed after I took my copyright course in 1986. We now follow the Byrne convention. I don't think it changed old copyrights, however.
I hope this helps.
Jess
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Jess
Unregistered User
(7/19/02 7:36:19 am)
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On second thought
Jane,
I'll bet your publisher is familiar with the period of the old law, with and without renewal. The trouble may be getting the "life" of the illustrator.
Jess
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Jess
Unregistered User
(7/19/02 7:47:23 am)
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More help?
Jane,
See: the U.S. copyright office:
www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap3.html
There are presumptions regarding the expiration of the copyright where you cannot find the length of the author's life.
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Jess
Unregistered User
(7/19/02 8:12:36 am)
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Sorry
Jane.
Sorry about all the responses. I keep reading more into your question. If you go to the website above, you can see that it isn't as simple as just a single date. It depends upon various factors. I remember my professor complaining that that was one of the problems with the copyright law. Sigh. Oh and "Byrne" should be "Berne", and "75" should be "70". I guess after all these years I don't have a perfect memory after all. lol
Again, I wish I could have given you a more succinct answer.
Jess
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Heidi
Anne Heiner
ezOP
(7/19/02 8:59:16 am)
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Horribly hard question
Jane,
I have used the rule of thumb of prior to 1923 as safe for most of the stuff on my website. I have heard that from many, many sources, but of course I take no responsibility on the veracity of it where anyone else's risk is concerned, just my own. One of my favorite sites to consult is at:
www.unc.edu/~unclng/public-d.htm
I have always been more confused about illustrations and artwork since I think it also depends on who owns the original, especially stuff owned by museums. Arthur Rackham is always a pain to hunt down since his work hits both sides of 1923 and was published in so many different editions. I try to find when the illustration originally appeared to learn if it is "safe" or not.
My new brother-in-law is going to study copyright law in a year and wants to specialize in it. I can't wait until I can get free consultation from him in a few years! (I'm lucky he offered before I had to beg.....here's hoping he sticks with that specialty.)
Heidi
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Jess
Unregistered User
(7/19/02 9:18:08 am)
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1923
Heidi and Jane,
I have "wasted" the whole morning pouring through old copyright law and here was a great website. Cornell seems to have a similar one (and a bit easier to read). I am now curious about that 1923. Is it an 80 year rule from date of publication? Which would mean that in 2004, things come into the public domain that were "published" in 1924. Or is it some set year in the law to make things easy. I know that in 1909 the law changed to allow for the copyright period to tick from the date of publication. Are older works grandfathered? Gosh, it has been far too long since I studied this stuff. I really enjoyed it, too.
Jane, be careful. The date 1923 only applies to certain "published" works from what I can tell. Published is a much broader term, however, than publication as one normally thinks of it.
Jess
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Jane Yolen
Unregistered User
(7/19/02 11:38:34 am)
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Thanks
Thanks to both of you. I wonder if the Arthur Rackham pictures and postcards etc. are actually paying off the Rackham heirs--they are EVERYWHERE! (And have been for years.)
We are hoping to use some Rackham and Walter Crane and Durer etc. as frontispieces for the various fairy tale menus--if we can safely know they are PD. Or can find where to get permission.
Jane
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Jess
Unregistered User
(7/19/02 1:18:36 pm)
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Rackham
Jane,
Rackham illustrated a 1909 version of Grimms. If your illustrations are from that edition, you are probably okay at least in the U.S. You can get a copy of the original book rereleased from Amazon (or maybe from the library). It should list any copyrights. There is also a fairy tale edition with Rackham illustrations just released from Dover. You could probably find a copy in a good bookstore or you might want to contact Dover directly.
The Cornell website I mentioned earlier (I'll try to find the URL) gives reference to a book about the copyright law. You might want to find a copy and peruse it for additional information. Interestingly, the website also mentions in a footnote that very few copyrights are renewed (something like 15% or fewer!). There is a good chance that even later works are in the PD.
Given enough time, I could probably figure out ways to help you track down copyright ownerships. I am afraid I am not feeling well today and so my concentration is a bit off and I probably wouldn't be very productive any way. I like things like this so give me a couple of days.
Jess
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Jess
Unregistered User
(7/19/02 1:44:32 pm)
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Year First Published?
Jane,
Do you know the year that these illustrations were first published? That would help immensely.
Jess
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Jane Yolen
Unregistered User
(7/20/02 2:45:33 am)
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Thanks
Jess--thanks. I have already brought over all the books with the illos to the publisher so I can't actually answer your questions, though if you want to talk directly to the woman doing the work over there her name is Juliana Spear. jspear@interlinkbooks.com It is for the book FAIRY TALE FEASTS.
I have also given her what information you have so wonderfully provided, and for which I am eternally grateful. (Would love to give you an acknowledgement in the book if you can give me your full name!)
As I am off tomorrow to Scotland for two months, my ability to affect anything more at such a long distance is rather small.
Jane
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Jess
Unregistered User
(7/21/02 8:00:25 am)
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Thanks
Jane,
I will contact your publisher on Monday. If I can do some real help,
well then, perhaps and acknowledgment would be nice. In the meantime,
it is always a pleasure to research and share what little I know.
Jess
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VShane
Unregistered User
(7/24/02 9:10:16 pm)
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Or you can just ask an illustrator
Jane, if you need anywork, I would be honored to help you out to get my feet more wet in the publishing end of books. Write me if your interested, as I can illustrate nearly anything and everything under the SF/F sun. I have been published in the SF/F game market for the past 12 years and am eager and excited to do more b/w interior work (or color) I work tradigitaly in Painter 7 so anything is possible.
Consider any work I might do for you "Jane Domain"
Peace
V Shane
www.vshane.com
fantasy@vshane.com
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Jane Yolen
Unregistered User
(7/25/02 8:45:23 am)
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author and illustrator
VShane--head-shaking but true, authors have very little input into who will illustrate their work. About a half dozen times I have gone hand-in-hand with an illustrator and the resulting work sold about a third of the time. The rest sit unsold in my files!
Jane
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