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Author
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Comment
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Terri
Registered User
(5/4/02 7:23:05 am)
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Tolkien quote query
A friend of mine is trying to find more information on a quote that she read concerning CS Lewis and Tolkien:
<...consider the point C. S. Lewis once made, asking why Tolkien should have
chosen to point morals in such extravagant fantasy:
"Because, I take it... the real life of men is of that mystical and heroic
quality... The imagined beings have their inside on the outside; they are
visible souls. And Man as a whole, Man pitted against the Universe, have we
seen him at all till we see that he is like a hero in a fairy tale?" >
(here's the source: www.nytimes.com/1967/01/15/books/tolkien-interview.html)
My friend's question: "Can anyone figure out whether it's Tolkien's own response, or Lewis's
point? I need to pin it down
Edited by: Terri at: 5/5/02 8:56:56 am
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Kerrie
Registered User
(5/4/02 7:54:23 am)
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"On FairyStories" and Mythopoeic Society...
It sounds like something that would be mentioned in "On Fairy-Stories," but I can't find any references to Lewis with a quick glance. I'll skim it better this afternoon. In the meantime, I just posted the question to my mythsoc email list (for the Mythopoeic Society) to see if they can help. I'll keep you posted!
Soft whispers and valley blossoms,
Kerrie
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ZMethos
Registered User
(5/4/02 12:06:14 pm)
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Re: Tolkien quote query
It sounds to me, from the structure of the quote, that C.S. Lewis is the one speaking. The point is noted as being made by him. And the "I take it" suggests that Lewis is trying to answer for something Tolkien did; if Tolkien were answering, he'd be more unequivocal about it, I think. But that's just my reading of the passage.
~M. Pepper
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jess
Unregistered User
(5/4/02 5:00:06 pm)
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hmm
Terri,
A quick goggle search found this:
If that sounds overly simple and sententious, consider the point C. S. Lewis once made, asking why Tolkien should have chosen to point morals in such extravagant fantasy:
"Because, I take it... the real life of men is of that mystical and heroic quality... The imagined beings have their inside on the outside; they are visible souls. And Man as a whole, Man pitted against the Universe, have we seen him at all till we see that he is like a hero in a fairy tale?"
www.www.nytimes.com/books/01/02/11/specials/tolkien-mag67.html
The article was written by Philip Norman who is "on the staff of the Sunday Times, London." I would go to Mr. Norman directly and ask him.
Jess
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Kerrie
Registered User
(5/6/02 5:21:18 pm)
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Re: "On FairyStories" and Mythopoeic Society...
Here are the responses I've received so far:
1) ***"Take a look at the following website:
www.fsnielsen.com/txt/mir...rs-ch1.htm
If you page down to the section called "The Denial of Reality," you will find the following:
> "Much that in a realistic work would be done by `character delineation' is here done simply by making the character an elf, a dwarf, or a hobbit," Lewis continues. "The imagined beings have their insides on the outside; they are visible souls."
I can't figure out from the page what work the quote is supposed to come from. Incidentally, all I had to do was put the sentence starting "The imagined beings . . ." into Google and this site came right up. It's always a good idea to put any quote you're searching for into Google."*** WW
and
2)***"Not to discount the mighty power of Google, but the power of books is mightier. From one of them, I have confirmed that the quote is from Lewis's review of LOTR as a whole (to be distinguished from his review of Fellowship separately), titled "The Dethronement of Power" and published in "Time and Tide", Oct. 22, 1955. Both reviews are reprinted, together, in Lewis's "On Stories and Other Essays on Literature" and possibly elsewhere."*** DB
groups.yahoo.com/group/mythsoc/
Hope these help! If not, let me know and I'll try to do a full-blown search!
Soft whispers and valley blossoms,
Kerrie
Edited by: Kerrie at: 5/8/02 4:40:20 am
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Terri
Registered User
(5/7/02 8:25:45 am)
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Re: "On FairyStories" and Mythopoeic Society...
Thanks, Kerrie! I'll pass this on.
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Jess
Unregistered User
(5/7/02 8:53:04 am)
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The power of books
Kerrie,
I couldn't agree with you more. Goggle is my home research method as our library is woefully short on books which are spread throughout 6 distant branches, e.g., they only have a few Zipes books which are reference only more than an 45 minutes away from me. Sigh.
Glad you were better able to help Terri.
Jess
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InterstitialGirl
Registered User
(5/7/02 7:13:29 pm)
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Re: "On FairyStories" and Mythopoeic Society...
Kerrie - All hail the power of books!!! And thank you so much for your help. I am that very Friend of Terri's trying to decipher Clive from John: Ellen Kushner, working on a "Sound & Spirit" script about LOTR which will air in November (see www.wgbh.org/pri/spirit for other shows in this little-known public radio series). I've been wanting to do this show ever since we started 6 years ago, and have finally been allowed/gotten up the nerve. The music so far is un peu bizarre - a Dutch group called the Hobbitons, some Danes (with illustrations by the Queen of Denmark, a fan!) . . . and a much-recorded LOTR symphony for band . . . . My producer has challenged me to record the setting I made of Galadriel's Song when I was a teenager, and you know I love a challenge. Stay tuned to see if it makes it into the final show.
Tomorrow I interview Michael Swanwick for it - or, rather, I sit listening in admiration as Michael does that voodoo that he does so well - he is one magnificent riffer on the subject of LOTR!
Hmm. This is my first post, and the Little Box is awful full . . . I will withdraw, leaving only more thanks -
Ellen
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Kerrie
Registered User
(5/8/02 5:57:30 am)
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Credit...
Glad I could be of assistance! However, I cannot be credited with the book research- I only posted the question to the mythsoc elist for the Mythopoeic Society and those were there replies!
groups.yahoo.com/group/mythsoc/
Sorry for the confusion! I posted too quickly and should have had at least quotation marks and initials (didn't want to post their names). I just edited it to avoid future confusion. (Oh, at this rate, I'll never be a great editor!)
As for Sound and Spirit, Ellen, I have a reminder on my computer to go off every Sunday morning, so when I'm home, I turn it on! It's great hearing a local show on topics I love so much! Please keep up the great work and let me know if I can ever be of any assistance! (That of course goes for everyone else as well!)
Sorry for the confusion!
Soft whispers and valley blossoms,
Kerrie
Edited by: Kerrie at: 7/14/02 5:20:21 am
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InterstitialGirl
Registered User
(5/8/02 6:22:22 am)
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Re: Credit...
You can edit on these things?! A wonderful thing is technology! Must learn how to use it someday.
Now I see the initials "DB" - probably the great mythopoeist David Bratman, bless him!
And bless *you* for collecting from him and the others.
Glad you like "Sound & Spirit." It's "produced in Boston, shared with the nation" (as WGBH marketing likes to say): I think we just hit a national carriage of 128 stations. We often rely on the kindness of strangers for our research: my assistant is really good at digging out obscure factoids online, and has taught me all I know about Google....
e
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Richard
Parks
Registered User
(5/8/02 8:21:05 am)
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Re: Credit...
Ooh, I love "Sound and Spirit." Be sure to tell us when the Tolkien show's going to air!
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Kerrie
Registered User
(5/9/02 8:18:36 am)
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Re: Credit... and edit...
Edit first: If you log into the Discussion Board (I think this works only for Registered Users), you will see an Edit option on all of your posts next to the Reply option.
Now the credit: And yes, it was indeed David Bratman! It's an interesting group- just read an interesting post re: some controversy on the next film's title, "The Two Towers."
I noticed recently via Endicott Studio's links that you are involved as guest faculty for an Interstitial Writing course this summer- do you think when you return to Boston for "Sound & Spirit" that you will teach a course at one of the local colleges?
Soft whispers and valley blossoms,
Kerrie
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InterstitialGirl
Registered User
(5/9/02 1:23:47 pm)
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Sound, Spirit & Teaching
Thank you, Richard! I'll try and remember - but if I don't, the exact week will be posted on our website by September (www.wgbh.org/pri/spirit)... I think it will be in November, our LOTR show.
Kerrie, thanks for the tutorial.
My partner, Delia Sherman, will be teaching a weeklong sf/fantasy course on Cape Cod in August:
www.capecodwriterscenter....oducts.htm
The website isn't very clear; I think one needs to contact them directly for details.
I'll be there for one day (8/21)'s lectures; I believe the program describes it as "EK talks about whatever she feels like!"
Otherwise, the summer is mostly taken up with travel, and with creating and workshopping a new performance piece I'm doing with Shirim pianist Michael McLaughlin on the Book of Esther - I'll let you know when we have a date for that, too! Performances this summer will be in Boston, but we hope next year to take it on the road (below the Mason-Dixon line!) courtesy of the Institute for Southern Jewish Life, a truly mad and wonderful array of folks in Jackson, Miss.
- Ellen
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Richard
Parks
Registered User
(5/10/02 8:20:27 am)
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Re: Sound, Spirit & Teaching
There are indeed a lot of mad and wonderful people in the area. We tend to produce them in large numbers for some reason...
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Kerrie
Registered User
(7/14/02 5:22:58 am)
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Preview...
Quick note- I just listened to a preview of the show yesterday at Readercon- it's fabulous! Ellen, please know that when the show airs, I will be dancing all over my apartment to the beautiful music you chose!
Dandelion dreams,
Kerrie
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sapeloe
Unregistered User
(7/17/02 7:17:07 am)
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Tolkien quote query
After looking at it in the context of the interview, I would say that Lewis was the speaker.
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InterstitialGirl
Registered User
(7/22/02 6:47:48 am)
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Re: Preview...
Thank you, Kerrie! I did a "sneak preview" of the show live at Readercon last weekend, and the rest of the audience seemed to like it, too..... I think the LOTR show will air on Sound & Spirit the week of November 10th - to be absolutely sure, check the program schedule closer to the date, at
www.wgbh.org/pri/spirit
(And, yes, we did decide that the speaker was Lewis, and quoted him as such!)
Ellen
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RingWraithNumber5
Unregistered User
(8/18/02 8:45:22 am)
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Time and Tide
Hi there! I'm a newbie to the boards, but not to Tolkien & your wonderful discussion --which I thank you for. I'm the co-chair of the NY Tolkien Society Smial & as a pet project, I'm doing some research into LOTR and Tolkien and I have been trying, albeit unsuccessfully, to find a reprint of the entire review of Lewis' on FOTR --"The Gods Return to Earth" -- from Time and Tide. Does anyone know where I might find that? either on the net or in hard copy.
Thanks a million!
Jessie
RingWraithNumber5@yahoo.com
check out our society too...
www.herenistarion.org
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