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Author
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Comment
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k8e
Unregistered User
(7/13/02 9:47:46 am)
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Fractured Fairy Tales
I have looked at a lot of logs and didn't see anything on fractured fairy tales. Is this a topic of which the group has opinions on. I am a secondary teacher in California who loves teaching fairy tales. With our diverse culture, I can't assume that all my students are familiar with atleast some variant of traditional fairy tales. Thus, I use fractured fairy tales to level the playing field. One of my favorite is The Paper Bag Princess. This finally provides the opportunity to discuse a heroine. Yes, a strong opinionated female.
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Jane Yolen
Unregistered User
(7/13/02 2:57:54 pm)
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Lots here
I adore fractured fairy tales, have written a number myself (Sleeping Ugly, and lots of short stories that could qualify) and also pubbed Vivian Vande Velde's The Brothers Grimm and the Sisters Weird when I was an editor.
You will find a number of people on the board who have either written
ff or (as editors) published them.
So let's shmooze!
Jane
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ChrisCalabrese
Registered User
(7/13/02 5:22:48 pm)
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Re: Lots here
There is a wonderful video of of Sleeping Beauty done by Paul Mesner a well known Nebraska puppeteer. He recieved the highest honor in puppetry the UNIMA/USA Citation of Excellence in Puppetry.
His Sleeping Beauty has several twists: a pair of finicky Royal chefs, a helpful hound, a fortune telling frog, and a tuneful trumpeteer. He uses beautiful handcrafted rod puppets.
The video is available at:
www.paulmesnerpuppets.org...tobuy.html
Chris
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William
Saxton
Registered User
(7/17/02 5:47:35 am)
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Re: Lots here
_Once Upon a Time Is Enough_, Will Stanton
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julie
Unregistered User
(8/7/02 7:35:42 pm)
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fractured fairy tales
I'm also interested in fractured fairy tales; specifically ones written appropriately for younger children to spark their writing of their own fairy tales. There are many versions of the Cinderella tale and Snow White; is anyone aware of any modern retellings or spins on Jack and the Beanstalk; Rumpelstiltskin; The Princess and the Pea; Rapunzel; or any other fairy tales with plants as a component?
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Heidi
Anne Heiner
ezOP
(8/7/02 8:18:16 pm)
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Re: fractured fairy tales
There is "Kate and the Beanstalk" by Mary Pope Osborne and "Rumpelstiltskin's Daughter" by Diane Stanley. The best fairy tale for finding fractured versions is "The Three Little Pigs," though. Jon Scieszka sparked its popularity with "The True Story of the Three Little Pigs" and then we more recently got "The Three Pigs" by David Wiesner, the Caldecott winner and "Wait! No Paint!" by Bruce Whatley.
Also see:
Jon Scieszka's "Frog Prince Continued" and "Stinky Cheese Man"
Mary Pope Osborne's "Brave Little Seamstress"
Jane Yolen's "Sleeping Ugly"
Vaes' "Princess and the Pea" (fractured with the princess as an overall wearing, car repairing grease monkey named Opal)
and for slightly older kids just getting into chapter books, we have Gail Carson Levine's "Princess Tales" comprised of four titles, soon to be six in October--she does the Princess and the Pea in "The Princess Test"
And don't get me started on Cinderellas.
But most of the fracturing these days tends towards a feminist sensibility, with the great exception of the Three Little Pigs stuff.
I'm blank on fractured Rapunzels for kids. Anyone else think of any?
Heidi
Edited by: Heidi Anne Heiner at: 8/7/02 8:21:04 pm
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Kerrie
Registered User
(8/8/02 8:39:04 am)
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Definition...
This may sound silly, but can anyone give an official definition
of a "fractured fairy tale"? I'm sure it's obvious, but
I don't want to make suggestions that are not what's sought after.
Dandelion wishes,
Kerrie
Edited by: Kerrie at: 8/8/02 4:50:58 pm
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Heidi
Unregistered User
(8/8/02 3:30:46 pm)
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Definition
From "The Oxford Companion to Fairy Tales:"
"Fractured fairy tales are traditional fairy tales, rearranged to create new plots with fundamentally different meanings or messages. Fractured fairy tales are closely related to fairy-tale parodies, but the two serve different purposes: parodies mock individual tales and the genre as a whole; fractured fairy tales, with a reforming intent, seek to impart updated social and moral messages."
There is a discussion of specific examples, but that is the gist of it.
: )
Heidi
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julie
Unregistered User
(8/8/02 6:26:48 pm)
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fractured fairy tales
Thank you for the question and definition! I was under the incorrect assumption that any change in story elements while borrowing the basic story line was "fracturing" the fairy tale. I didn't realize that it was only plot. I guess for my student's purposes, parodies as well as fracturings would be quite appropriate to help develop their creativity. So now I'll broaden my original question looking for parodies or fractures on fairy tales with plants as a component; and thanks to all of you who are sharing and giving me more to think about! I'm so glad to have found this website!
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janeyolen
Unregistered User
(8/9/02 9:22:03 am)
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My take on it
I think that's a very narrow definition of a fractured fairy tale.There are certainly other ways to fracture a cairy tale than changing its plot. One can change the pov character--I did that with 3 Billy Goats Gruff telling the story from the bridge's pov. Or set the story in a specific historical century, as in "Granny Rumple" as a shetl story.
A fractured fairy tale still must be somehow recognizeably itself, but elements within have to be "fractured" or broken apart, often mended with crazy-cracks.
See Vivian Vande Velde's Rumplstiltskin book.Or her Brothers Grimm and Sisters Weird.
Jane
Jane
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Heidi
Anne Heiner
ezOP
(8/9/02 9:55:03 am)
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Re: My take on it
I agree with Jane. The more I thought about the my favorite fractured fairy tales, the more I found to define the fracturing. But at least the definition is a place to start.
Also, I just read about a new fractured version of Twelve Dancing Princesses in PW. It is "The Princesses Have a Ball" by Teresa Bateman. Here is a link to it on Amazon:
www.amazon.com/exec/obido...lalufairyt
The princesses play basketball in it. Still not dealing with plants, but cute.
Heidi
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julie
Unregistered User
(8/10/02 5:24:02 pm)
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fairy tale definitions
Thanks again for the book ideas to get me started. I just spent a fabulously fun four hours going through the shelves in the children's section at Barnes & Noble and got or ordered your suggestions as well as some others I found during my adventure! I picked up "Once Upon A Fairy Tale" which has several versions of four fairy tales, including 7 versions of Rumpelstiltskin in different pov; "Revolting Rhymes" by Roald Dahl " which contains Jack in poetry form, and several others which I found on the surlalune margins.
I know that it is very difficult to define the various parts of the genre, but I really could use some help with the basic components to help third and fourth graders sort out what is what! For instance, what are the basic and necessary components of a fairy tale which separate it from fantasy? If a story has personification, but the people actually solve the problem/plot line with their own ingenuity, doesn't that remove it as a fairy tale? Example: The Three Little Pigs, The Princess and the Pea, The Three Billy Goats Gruff, Little Red Riding Hood, The Three Bears and The Emperor's New Clothes all solve their problems without magic, unlike Cinderella, Jack and the Beanstalk, Rumplestiltskin, The Frog Prince, The Seven Chinese Brothers, etc.
When they attempt writing their own, what must they include? How important is the "rule of threes"? I have a few "teacher's guides" which all explain things differently but the main common thread seems to be a good character, an evil character and magic which helps to solve the problem. Comments?
My students must be able to sort fantasy, fables, fairy tales, folk tales, legends, and tall tales to take their state mandated tests. I know that as adults we can grey and blur the edges for our own ends and enjoyment, but I need help with the black and white of the genre. Anyone?
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ChrisCalabrese
Registered User
(8/10/02 10:39:22 pm)
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Socratic overanalysis
The unexamined life is not worth living. . .
a life that is only examined is not worth living.
Bureaucrats who write exams Vladmir Popp and Jack Zipes couldn't pass. . . belong on Jeopardy not educating our children.
What images are their favorites?
the gingerbread house. . .
the bean stalk. . .
What are their favorite expressions?
Fi Fi Fo Fum. . .
My what big eyes you have. . .
The wonderment, the enchantment, the magic that makes fairy tales so universal, so powerful, so mysterious. . .that is the real rule of threes.
Chris
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Helen
Registered User
(8/11/02 8:58:28 am)
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Definitions, borders, and the nature of the fantastic ...
Hmm. It's an interesting problem ... my favorite definition of fairy tales has alway been the one that J.R.R. Tolkien gave in his essay, "On Fairy Stories." He said that they "are stories about Fairy, that is, Faerie, the realm or state in which fairies have their being ... Faerie ... contains many things besides elves and fays, besides dwarfs, witches, trolls, giants, or dragons: it holds the sea, the sun, the moon, the sky; and the earth and all things in it: tree and bird, water and stone, wine and bread, and ourselves, mortal men, when we are enchanted." Terri quotes it at the beginning of the introduction to _Black Thorn, White Rose_, and it's always struck me as being the single most accurate - and most appealing - definition of the genre. The fact that we get the phrase "fairy tales" from a literal translation of the french contes de fees (tales of the fairies) that were written by seventeenth century authors who often, themselves, felt no need to include literal fairies (the linguistic construction, de or des, is such that it can be taken to mean, either tales concerning the fairies, or, literally, the fairies own tales, presenting an interesting insight into how they saw themselves ... no wonder it's so easy to parallel the authors with the fairy godmothers who they created) makes for some interesting moments; the phrase became even more unwieldy when it was used as a translation of the German marchen (tales of wonder), which, frequently, also did not include literal "fairies."
Amongst ouselves, we could probably get into a really fascinating, convoluted discussion of just what the distinctions between the various genres of the fantastic are ... but, somehow, I don't think that the subtle distinctions are going to make it through into a state-mandated test for elementary-school age children.
So, practically speaking: I'd say, a copy of Webster's Dictionary (from which, sadly, they will probably be pulling the base definitions to set their categories), get a copy of the _Oxford Companion to Fairy Tales_, and check with the local Department of Education to see if they have a teachers guide (I can't imagine that they wouldn't...). Teach your students the really basic distinctions between the genre - these are fairly superficial (i.e., tall tales will probably concern Paul Bunyan or Pecos Bill, be told in a colloqial fashion, myths will likely have to do with divinities of one sort or another, might involve heroic epithets, etc.), and I blush to suggest them, but, well, I don't think that they'll need more than that to do well. Hopefully, some of them will get really interested, and want to learn more ... *then,* it will make sense to get into the linguistic implications of "tall tale" as opposed to "folktale," entertainment as opposed to etiology, but if your immediate goal is to provide them with the necessary information to pass the test, making the lessons as straightforward as possible would seem to make sense. I'm not saying that you should instill in them a firm belief that a fairy tale can only be a fairy tale if it contains a specific set of ingredients ... but, these are questions that really can stump life-long scholars, so keeping their grade-level in mind, I'd say start with the basics, but leave room for the definitions to evolve as they mature and, hopefully, grow more interested in the topics.
Chris, I'm not so sure that I agree with you. I agree that the idea of making the tales into just another set of facts for rote memoriazation is pedantic and unappealing. But, what's the alternative? Generation upon generation raised on the lowest-common-denominator kind of bowdlerized versions unless some personal experience sends them out to do personal research? This way, kids have access to tales that they might not necessarily get from their parents, and odds are that it will spark an interest in the material in at least some of them ... worst at worst, they know the rudiments of classical myth, and a little bit of folk culture, and have the ability to recognize the antecedents of the fying horse on the Mobile sign. It's not too far from what Jane advocates in _Touch Magic_ (Jane, I hope that I'm not misinterpreting your word's here). Best at best, when they're taught by teachers who are passionate about the subject (like Julie, for example), they see the intrinsic fascination of the material. I kind of like the idea ... who knows, if it catches on in California, it might sweep the nation, and, twenty years from now, revitalize the field to the point that every institution of higher learning will have a Folklore division. Does that really sound so bad?
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Laura
McCaffrey
Registered User
(8/11/02 10:21:03 am)
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Re: Definitions, borders, and the nature of the fantastic ..
Julie,
I also work in a school, though as a librarian not as a teacher. I would follow Helen's advice. The kids are only going to have to know basic distinctions for those tests - it will depend what tests they're going to take as to what will be the most important distinctions. Your Dept. of Ed. and perhaps teachers at other schools who've given the kids those tests before will be able to tell you what kind of distinctions to emphasize. I don't know if you're a listserve kind of woman but I'm sure you could also get some decent answers on some education listservs or in some education listserv archives. Also use your local school librarians or library media specialists, many of them teach folklore, tall tale, etc. units and many of their books have curriculum suggestions on these subjects.
As to Helen's point about making sure kids are exposed to all this material, I agree to a certain extent. But I don't know that pendantic and unappealing requirements do open many doors for kids - unless they have a passionate teacher making sure that they learn for meaning instead of just to get the grade, to pass the test, to raise the score. Disney is better at selling fairy tale story lines than state education requirements - not that I'm defending the way that company uses the fairy tales, just making an observation. I should stop here, however, before I step on my education soap box and go far afield from this discussion.
Laura Mc
Edited by: Laura McCaffrey at: 8/11/02 10:23:11 am
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Helen
Registered User
(8/11/02 11:50:23 am)
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Very true ...
Dear Laura:
I agree completely - the manner in which the material is presented will definitely affect the manner in which it's received. It will undoubtably be more successful if it's presented by a teacher who's enthusiatic and involved. However, is that really different from any other subject? Poor history teachers have probably soured countless children on George Santayana ... but the good ones have inspired their pupils to become historians and biographers, anthropologists and archivists. Putting the material out there introduces children to a potential interest ... leaving it off the syllabus eliminates the choice. I have no idea what kind of a curriculum the state of California is asking its teachers to follow, and, if it's a dry. unpleasant format that sucks the joy out of a living tradition, then fie to them. But it has the potential to be a wonderful enterprise ... and there's no inherent reason that the entertaining and educational aspects can't go hand in hand.
Best,
Helen
P.S. - Laura, please, take the soap-box; I'd love to hear more!
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julie
Unregistered User
(8/11/02 1:00:21 pm)
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meeting the requirements
It doesn't have to be all about the tests, but if you do it right, they will pick up the gist of what your teaching objective is, while learning to appreciate and love the wonder and beauty of the stories. The other key is mucking through the vastness of the resources out there to find the best possible choices of lilting words and gorgeous, fitting artwork to use the time most efficiently.
That's why finding this site seems so valuable to me, because while there are many versions of various tales out there to use, I'd prefer to have the opportunity to chat with people who've used, seen, and love them first and can better help narrow down the field before I use my entire savings on ones who have been written for adults in the guise of a picture book! Adults love them, too, but I'd like to keep the story lines more pure for the younger readers. They can handle some violence and are beginning to learn some political humor, but some of the overtones seem really adult in some versions! I guess that's a little of my soapbox! I'm less than happy with the "Revolting Rhymes" by Roald Dahl with references to beer, slut, bookies,and etc. The premise is fantastic, the rhyming style very inviting, but they don't compare to the quality of his other works, which is too bad because the students love poetry. While kids love disgusting and revolting things, I think he's crossed the line in these.
Thanks for the ideas for sorting out the blurred edges--for those who are interested, I found some basic information at encarta online deluxe and also at Scholastic. I'm really appreciating the back and forth of ideas on this site!
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Laura
McCaffrey
Registered User
(8/11/02 5:14:49 pm)
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Re: Very true ...
Oh Helen,
You really don't want me to step on the soap-box, not here. But I guess what I'll say in response to your post is this - I'm in total agreement. These things shouldn't be left out of the curriculum. But curriculum and testing and theory are tools, and we could argue about how useful they are generally, but it is that PERSON who works with those kids day in and day out who makes a difference. I guess I often feel that the tools are argued about endlessly - which tests, which curriculum, which theory. But they are merely tools, and it is the hands that form them, wield them, shape them, adapt them and sometimes even throw them out, that are of premiere importance. As is the case with rings of power and seven league boots and invisibility cloaks, I suppose.
And Julie - glad you found some helpful things. I hope your unit is a raging success.
Laura Mc
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Helen
Registered User
(8/11/02 8:53:24 pm)
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Warned, but not warned off ...
Dear Laura:
Speech! Speech! [ahem.] I wish that you, and the soap-box, had been present during the education classes that I took as an undergraduate ... the focus on methodology over material was maddening. I think that the facts of the subject at hand can be conveyed to any individual who wants to teach that subject ... dedicated adults can absorb subject knowledge from texts, lecture courses, or personal research, preferably all of the above. But the knowledge of how to go out and present that knowledge to others, the actual *teaching* part ... I don't know if that part can be taught. I think that it's largely experience, and reflex, and knowledge of the specific students who one deals with in the classroom; I think that, past a certain point, teachers need to have the leeway to make decisions about how best to tailor the requisite material to their own classrooms. I'm all in favor of broadening that requisite material to include fairy tales as well as, say, fractions (I know which part of the day I would have looked forward to most eagerly ...), but I think that the individual teachers should have the final say on how that material is presented. Not that I'm an authority on this, by any means ... just opinionated.
Julie - ditto on the good wishes!
Best,
Helen
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Jess
Unregistered User
(8/11/02 8:57:18 pm)
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My two cents
Julie,
I cringe when I think about a teacher having to make curriculum decisions because of state mandated tests. My own son will be facing one of these tests (WA) this year, and I have had long discussions with his teacher regarding whether one should "teach to the test" or just teach. I either missed it or you didn't say how old the students you are teaching. My guess is that the students will absorb fairly easily the broad distinctions between the "classes" of tales they must know for the test. My four-year old (who incidentally doesn't read yet) can categorize most of tales - i.e. fables, myths, fairy tales
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Jess
Unregistered User
(8/11/02 8:59:05 pm)
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Ack!
Half of my message disappeared and I had made my argument so well.
I will have to readdress this issue again tomorrow - sorry for the short one.
Jess
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