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Author
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Comment
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Otherworld
Registered User
(4/14/02 3:31:02 pm)
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folktales, archeology, mirrors and magic... help?
hi all
just discovered this community and love it already
this is my first question/debate and it came to me after reading some of the other topics tonight
I'm a actor/writer/storyteller living in Scotland but I also used to work in the Archeology Dept and some elements of them all are coming together.
Mirrors and combs were mentioned in one subject room as being important in many tales as having magic propertys.
then i remembered that many Iron Age Scottish stones have these carved on them. I then remembered that the Celts placed their swords, shields, amlutes back in to rivers, lochs, bogs etc. The theory being that as a place they could see their reflection water was seen as a doorway to Otherworld.
Blacksmiths were held in the highest regard so is it possible that while forging a sword, braclet etc, the owner would be present to cast their reflection in to the water as it was put in to cool. Thus placing their spirit in to the item? When they died it would be returned to water and take them to otherworld
and this is why mirrors are seen as things of magic in folktales in some cultures?
maybe its just a crazy theory but I would love some feed back.
cheers
Otherworld
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janeyolen
Unregistered User
(4/14/02 3:53:04 pm)
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???
I don't have anything to add to what you said, though was curious where in Scotland you live. I live part time in St Andrews.
Jane
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isthmus
nekoi
Registered User
(4/16/02 3:00:52 pm)
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mirrors
I don't find your mirror/Underworld theory crazy at all! ^-^ I think mirrors are powerful symbols and are all over the place in story. Sometimes they represent the ability to look into another world, or the unconscious (or Underworld!). One really great mirror story is a Greek myth in which Perseus can only slay the Medusa by looking at her in a mirror, - this can be interpreted as the ego using the means of *reflection* (or projection) to view the unconscious as the material cannot be viewed directly. Other stories that come to mind are Alice in the Looking Glass and Snow White although I'm thinking of the Disney version :P. Oh yes, and Disney has the mirror again in Beauty and the Beast!
In Japan they cover their mirrors and this I found very interesting. You can buy these little ones and they will come with a matching cover.
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Gregor9
Registered User
(4/17/02 11:42:37 am)
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Re: mirrors
The comment about Japan reminds me of a painting of Kitsune, whose transformation from woman to fox is shown in a mirror--and I think it's a handheld mirror if I recall it right.
And I think Jean Cocteau would agree wholeheartedly with the connection between mirror and underworld. In his Orpheus film, it is through a "liquid" mirror that entry to the underworld is gained.
Greg
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Judith
Berman
Registered User
(4/18/02 6:46:46 am)
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Re: mirrors
And don't forget the "Smoking Mirror" of the Aztecs. In one of the Columbus quincentenary exhibits, I saw an original obsidian mirror used by the priests of Huitzipochtli (?) for divination. Very cool.
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Judith
Berman
Registered User
(4/18/02 6:49:24 am)
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Re: mirrors
I forgot to mention the 8-sided mirror of Amaterasu (the Japanese sun goddess), by which she is lured out of the cave (which at least in other traditions were often underworld entrances) where she has hidden herself. It's a symbol of enlightenment which we used to have on our aikido patches -- possibly before your time, Greg.
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Gregor9
Registered User
(4/18/02 8:40:21 am)
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Re: mirrors
Judith,
That patch was before my time, but I remember the story of luring the goddess out of the cave with the mirror. Seems to me I also recall a (possibly dubious, do you think?) claim that this same mirror is on display somewhere in Japan.
G
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Richard
Parks
Registered User
(4/18/02 9:55:25 am)
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Re: mirrors
I've heard two different versions of the Amaterasu story. One where they used the mirror to lure her out, the other was when one of the other goddesses did a rather risque dance, the rest of the gods made a bunch of noise to encourage her, and the Sun Goddess peeked out of her cave to see what all the fuss was about.
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Otherworld
Registered User
(4/18/02 5:11:18 pm)
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Re: mirrors and thanks
Hi all and thanks
lots of info to start me on next train of thought....can't belive i overlooked muduisa [or how ever it's spelt.. says this eclectic dyslexic] looks like were well on our way to many thoughts about the mirrors.... what about combs as these were also recorded in prehistory????
back soon
martin [otherworld]
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Maatera
Registered User
(4/22/02 1:40:01 pm)
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another mirror reference
Have you ever read "The Manuscript Found in Saragossa"? There is a character in there who is a female cabbalist. She had been promised in marriage to the celestial twins - Gemini. She says the incantations to summon them but she can only see them in the reflection in her mirror. Even then, they shine too brightly for her to look them in the eye. This is only a very small part of the book but he (Jan Potocki) definitely uses the mirror as a gateway to another world.
Connie
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