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Comment
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Kate
Unregistered User
(9/3/01 10:26:18 am)
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Current FT Writers
Terri, I hope you don't mind my moving your comments on this subject to a new string, to begin a conversation on it. This is my favorite subject, one I go on and on about all over the place to anyone who will listen, because I think it is a huge movement--of vast literary importance--that many will notice over time, but only a special few have noticed yet. You say "no one is really paying attention" to the movement--perhaps no one who anyone is listening to yet, but I am driven to make people listen! It's my only mission in fact, if I have one outside writing my odd little novels. So . . .
Terri's Post:
"Kate: I just went back and re-read the Intro to Mirror, Mirror and see that you did indeed briefly touch on the historical tradition of women fairy tale writers. Oh, I really want Greg to write this essay! (Yes, I know, Greg, the novel must come first. <g> ) The way I see it, there are three different (and not entirely separate) groups of women writers today who have taken up the fairy tale tradition: the poets (beginning more-or-less with Anne Sexton and including, today, Olga Broumas, Lix Locchead, Carol Ann Duffy, Gwen Strauss, etc.); the mainstream writers (Angela Carter, A.S. Byatt, Sara Maitland, Marina Warner, Margaret Atwood, Berlie Doherty, Emma Donoghue, Kathryn Davis, you, etc.); and the women fairy tale writers who publish in the adult and YA fantasy genres (Tanith Lee, Jane Yolen, Patricia McKillip, Delia Sherman, Ellen Kushner, Midori Snyder, Robin McKinley, Donna Jo Napoli, etc.) Put them all together and you have quite a large literary movement that no one is really paying much attention to. The genre group in particularly shares a number of traits with the 17th century women writers:
1. Their works are ignored or dismissed as trivial/feminine/popular by most critics and the committees handing out grants and literary prizes (as the women salon writers were alternately ignored and dissed by the French Academy)
2. They nonetheless have a very large readership, particularly among other educated women
3. They use fairy tales in subversive ways, and to comment on themes central to contemporary women's lives, often with distinct feminist agendas (as do the poets and mainstream writers, which is why I believe that the best of the genre writers belong in the same literary camp)
4. They tend to know each other, gather together, and create works in dialogue with one another
5. They are prone to mentoring other women writers
As far as I can tell (but I'm not a 17th century historian), D'Aulnoy was the most influential women of her period, as perhaps Angela Carter is today (although, in genre/YA fiction, I'd argue that Jane Yolen's influence has been equally pervasive.) Since I'm aware, in my work as an editor, of just how much focused labor it takes behind the scenes to nurture and build what must seem to readers like a spontaneous explosion of fairy tale fiction in genre literature, it would be nice to know more about the historical details and context in which the 17th century work was published. I'm curious to see what scholars like Lewis Seifert and Nancy Canepa come up in the future regarding the lives of the salonieres and their contemporaries."
So, to respond a bit--as I said about, this is my favorite topic, my only good topic, and the one which best defines my engagement with fairy tales in a way. Who was it who called it the triumphant resurgence of the tale, or am I making that up? When I went on interviews for jobs last year, I was surprised that many English department members new extremely little about fairy tale literature at all (which in a way put me at a strange advantage; they were fascinated by anything and everything to DO with tales). Calvino's introduction the Fantastic Tales is great on this topic too, in sideways manner.
The current movement as you describe it is one I have been extremely interested in and have begun to define a bit, for academic purposes--and I've also attempted to 'champion' it in every SINGLE interview or tiny article I ever write. I am definitely interested in taking it on in a longer essay at some point--as you noticed, I only shyly tried in the MM intro (being so reticent to make any broad claims then--early in my novel drafting, early in my personal study of the subject). Yet since then, I've been obsessed. I don't know what the proper venue for me to write such a thing; I was planning on doing it in part for the intro to my next collection . . . but would love to take it on elsewhere somehow, somehow! More publicly.
I'm going to post again on this topic in more detail but I won't have time until Wednesday. A deadline tomorrow, and first day of the fall semester too.
By the way, Random House is reissuing Mirror, Mirror this year! I shouldn't post the news, because it's so, well, new, and I don't know the details. I'm talking to them tomorrow. My primary concerns are a) to revise the introduction--to expand on exactly the stuff you mention here, which I feel I only hinted at there, given my newness to the material as anything but an associative writer; and b) to make additions--in the form of new essays--if they will allow, to represent the adult and YA fantasy writers, which many have pointed out are missing from the book (a subject I won't revisit here to risk repetitions of past postings). So, please keep your fingers crossed for me that additions will be allowed! I think it would greatly help a reissue, and I'd love to be making some invitations soon so the Movement is more broadly represented in there. I am afraid they won't allow additions--anyone with more experience on this sort of thing, have any ideas about persuading them? (I'll get my agent involved--and obviously new essays would help marketing--but I don't know the chances they'll agree. Tricks of the trade?)
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Terri
Registered User
(9/3/01 11:07:05 pm)
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Re: Current FT Writers
Kate, oh, all my fingers and all my toes are crossed for an expanded Mirror, Mirror, for sure!
I can't post more on this topic today...but I'll be back in a day or two with more time and many thoughts!
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Midori
Unregistered User
(9/4/01 3:19:27 am)
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Mirror
Kate,
Aargh, I'm rushing this morning but one thought occurred to me and Terri may have a second opinion on this...the only way I know to convince publishers to an expansion is to give them the essays in hand. A bit tricky, because there's no guarantee to the writers that their essays will be accepted as part of an expanded version. But publishers tend to be more aggreeable if they think the work is done and like it. And I suppose, if they don't love us...well, the writers have a decent essay they can always publish elsewhere. Work never goes to waste.
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Kate
Unregistered User
(9/4/01 8:21:56 am)
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Thanks for the suggestion
Terri,
Thanks for the enthusiasm! I am so incredibly hoping it can be an expanded version. I wrote you an email about it (the one you couldn't open--I resent it and hope it worked.)
Midori,
Thanks for the suggestion. I don't know how much time I'd have to get the essays in hand but that is very good advice! My agent is talking to Random House today. I'd love to have pieces from you, and Terri, and if she's not too swamped and would be interested, Jane . . . or a forward, at least from someone . . . but how fast could I get such pieces? It's a terrible time for that for everyone. Maybe I could pretend I was about to have them in hand. Hmmmm. I will think about this and post on it later. I'm at school--first day--much mayhem w/students--and will be home by early afternoon to talk to agent/publisher/etc. Thanks again for the excellent advice.
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janeyolen
Unregistered User
(9/4/01 10:23:38 am)
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Thoughts on expansions
Well, it took me ten years to get someone to do an expanded edition of Touch Magic. Had to wait till the book had been OP for five or six years! Usually a book needs to be a very good or best seller for them to be interested.
As to getting other folks to write Intros, you end up having to pay through the nose (usually) because the only reason to have one is by someone whose name will help sell the book. And those folk usually cost money because you are asking them to write an essay cum promotional ad for your "product."
Jane
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janeyolen
Unregistered User
(9/4/01 1:38:25 pm)
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Shamefaced
And then I get your lovely note off the board telling me that--in fact--Random IS expanding the book. I guess I don't read very well! <G> Congratulations.
The thing about getting a big name to do an intro remains the same. Often the publisher demands it, as a way of selling a book. I think it hardly necessary. (Though have done it myself a several times.It feels like an expanded blurb, though.
Jane
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Kate
Unregistered User
(9/4/01 2:06:30 pm)
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Intro etc.
Jane,
I wrote back to your notes off-board too. Thanks so very, very much for the congratulations. This whole thing came as an utter surprise, or I should say shock, to me. I fully expected the book to slowly trickle out of print. I'm especially very excited about the prospect of including new work from writers who ought to have been in there to begin with...
I completely agree that a new forward or intro will just feel like an extended blurb and gratuitous, too. (They are letting me revise mine somewhat, which is neat.)
Best,
Kate |
Terri
Registered User
(9/5/01 1:38:10 am)
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Re: Intro etc.
Kate, since my blasted Compuseve program can't read your e-mail for some reason (can you post it as a regular e-mail rather than an attachment, perhaps?), I am learning here that your expanded book is going to happen. Congratulations!!!! I'm so glad that the book is getting further attention, and that you're going to be able to include new authors, and I'm especially glad that you're thinking (at least according to your earlier post) of doing an expanded Introduction. I can't wait to read it. And I think we're really, really lucky in the contemporary fairy tale field to have you as not only a fellow writer and editor, but also a champion of the field.
I don't know how many writers you're going to be able to add (I
guess I'll know more when I can finally read your e-mail), but I
certainly would like to recommend a few from the fantasy field.
Do you want recommendations, or do you already have a set list of
people in mind? I don't want to step on your editorial toes in my
great enthusiasm for this! I *am* greatly enthusiastic, however.
I'm not only pleased for you and for the book, but also pleased
because a re-launch of the book could serve to open people's eyes
to the fact that a strong movement of contemorary fairy tale literature
and poetry (particularly by women authors, particularly by feminist
authors) exists, rooted in a sound historical literary tradition. |
Kate
Unregistered User
(9/5/01 10:58:13 am)
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Thanks!
Terri,
Thanks--I'm so excited myself! I can hardly believe it. I am nervous about the good luck, somehow . . . but it comes at a welcome moment, and I think the cheerfulness about this will soften any hard words on the novel, due out next week.
So, I've forwarded that darn email to Midori to forward to you! I don't know why our emails are refusing to communicate! It asks if you are at all interested in writing for the new edition . . . as you might have guessed. I know how busy you are and you may not have time to do anything . . . but it would be so great. I have to run my additions past the editorial board quite soon--they've given me very little time--so I'm trying to jump on my wish-list right away!
The editors are meeting next week, which is when I'll hear more about how many additions I can have. I couldn't tell from my conversation w/the publisher yesterday; my agent is talking to them further today to get more information and start drafting an amendment to the original contract. So at this point, I'd love additonal suggestions if you have them, of course! I'd be enormously grateful for any ideas, and will follow through on them if it looks like I can include more contributors than I currently expect (Four? But I would love to add six or so!).
This is a rushed post, I apologize. Oh, by the way, I'm sending emails as plain text messages--not as attachments! I don't know what's happening. I'll try again later, and from my school account, and we'll get to the bottom of this . . .
Best,
Kate
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kate
Unregistered User
(9/6/01 11:35:28 am)
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Sorry
Sorry all for using the board for business, here--but Terri, I did get your email--great! I sent one back. I don't know if my emails are coming through to you now or not. I can't figure out how they got transformed into attachments this week . . . Let me know if you got one from me today or not, and I can send it through Midori again if you were unable to open it.
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La
Reine Noire
Registered User
(9/6/01 7:08:15 pm)
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Whoa...
It just hit me. I'm replying to three authors I adore. But I'll
stop before I sound like one of those crazy teenyboppers.
I've not actually read "Mirror Mirror," though I came very close to buying it sometime a few years ago, accidentally mistaking it for the Tanith Lee "Red as Blood." But if a new (and hopefully expanded) edition is coming out, I'll wait on it before I buy it.
Also, Terri, is it true you and Ellen Datlow aren't publishing the faery-tale anthologies anymore? Please tell me it isn't!
~Kavita
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Terri
Registered User
(9/7/01 2:40:48 am)
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Re: Whoa...
Kate: Your e-mails are coming through fine now (don't know why they weren't before...), so we can take the business part of this discussion off-board now. I'm SO excited about this new edition of Mirror, Mirror.
Kavita: Yes, I'm afraid that Ellen Datlow and I only signed on for six volumes of the "Snow White, Blood Red" series, so we're not doing any more of them, at least for the time being. We were feeling a bit burned out after six volumes, and needed a break. On the other hand, perhaps the re-issue of Kate's Mirror, Mirror will create such a buzz for fairy tale fiction that the publisher will want us to pick it up again...you never know. In the meantime, we've edited a collection of Young Adult stories based on Greenman and forest myths, coming out from Viking next year, as well as a sequel to Wolf at the Door for Simon & Schuster. Children's anthologies pay better than adult anthologies, to be perfectly frank -- and while money isn't the major reason for creating books (certainly not in this low-paying field), it helps to earn a living wage once in awhile. <g>
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Gail
Unregistered User
(9/7/01 5:44:41 am)
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more details please
Terri, I would love to have a little more information on your upcoming publications -- if that is possbile at this point in time. And I would also like to add my congrats to you Kate on the revised edition of Mirror, Mirror -- what an important book and how nice that your publishers have realized this at this point in time.
Gail
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Gregor9
Registered User
(9/7/01 11:39:10 am)
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Re: Congratulations
Kate,
I just jumped on after being off the board more than a week (World SF Convention + respiratory illness akin to plague), to learn an expanded MIRROR, MIRROR is in the works. Congratulations on it. I can hardly wait.
Greg
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Terri
Registered User
(9/8/01 1:03:01 am)
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Re: more details please
Gail, I'm happy to tell you more. What specifically would like to know?
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Gail
Unregistered User
(9/10/01 12:36:31 pm)
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details
I guess I am just being greedy Terri -- I would like to know what "stories" are being included -- the traditional templates more than anything else as well as the estimated time of arrival, It will be too late for our book but I am planning on keeping an online annotated appendix to go along with the two volumes about reworkings in the fairy tale world. Not too mention that these are my favourite types of stories and I am looking forward to being able to have a new collection or two in my library. Thanks Gail
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