| Author |
Comment
|
Sunday
Registered User
(10/20/01 1:29:55 pm)
|
Beauty and the Beast/Beaumont's version-male dominance?
I'm looking for help in finding information on Beauty's relationship with the men in her life..Is she truely selfless or just a victim of male dominace?
Love some insight and direction...
Any help is much appreciated!!
|
Lotti
Unregistered User
(10/21/01 7:41:07 am)
|
Beauty isn't a victim
Dear Sunday,
I strongly disagree with your statement that beauty might be a victim to male dominance. I don't think she is truly selfless, either. I just reread the Beaumont-version to double check, and the impression I remembered was even stronger after rereading the story: Beauty is one of the most active and self-confident heroines in a fairy tale. It is her father, who is torn between saving his life, providing for his remaining children and saving Beauty, while Beauty knows exactly what she wants, decides to do it and - even if doubts assail her - sticks to her resolution. It is not so much sacrificing herself that she has in mind, but sticking to her own set of morals and her idea of right and wrong. This is seen also when she refuses to flatter the beast, claiming she can not tell a lie, and later on, when she refuses to promise the beast that she will never leave him. She is remarkably independent and chooses to act according to her own conscience and time-frame. She is only telling the beast she will marry him when she is ready, not when it is expected of her.
I always found the weakness of the father of Beauty very pronounced, the fact that he is guided by her and her wishes and always convincing himself his actions are for the best of his children. Also, in comparison to Beauty, even the Beast is a rather weak character. The person who really, truly keeps the story going and is the most active, is Beauty. Which I find all the more remarkable, given the time the story was written.
For me, Beauty is an almost "modern" young woman, the way her "emancipated" acting and her learning are stressed.
What do you think?
Best regards, Lotti
|
Terri
Registered User
(10/23/01 7:53:54 am)
|
Re: Beauty isn't a victim
Lotti, I think that's true of the Beaumont version, but if you go back to the older version of Beauty and the Beast by Villeneuve (which Beaumont shortened and adaptated into the version we're most familiar with today), it's Beauty's obedience to the wise advice of an older woman (her guardian fairy), rather than her independence, which ensures her happy ending.
|
Sunday
Registered User
(10/23/01 11:30:03 am)
|
Beast
In writing this paper for Beaumon't version, does anyone feel I will be able to support the dominance issue?
I can't say I agree much on the topic, however, it's the topic I have.
Should I take a look at the orginal version?
Beaumont wrote hers a lesson for young women to be selfless individuals. She used this tale during her years as a governess for young impressionable women.
|
Heidi
Anne Heiner
ezOP
(10/23/01 6:16:46 pm)
|
Re: Beast
Sunday,
I agree with the others when I say that Beauty and the Beast tends to have less male dominance issues than most of the other popular fairy tales.
I would recommend--as someone always does!--that you look at Marina Warner's "From the Beast to the Blonde," for some excellent insight on women's roles in fairy tales.
Some versions of Beauty and the Beast can support your theme more than others to be sure. Disney's version with the needless introduction of Gaston and the greater harshness of the beast is one example. Another interesting interpretation of the tale is Angela Carter's short story "The Courtship of Mr. Lyon" which portrays the giving of the daughter to the beast and the sexual overtones of the plot much more dramatically than others.
Problem is that Beauty has always been one of my favorites because of her active role in her story. She can be seen as the rescuer rather than the rescuee in most versions. I also appreciated the need to look beyond appearances as a child which Beauty learns how to do. Yes, men get her into the situation, but she still goes willingly and ends up "saving " herself and someone else in the end.
Heidi
|
janeyolen
Unregistered User
(10/24/01 4:10:57 am)
|
Other Beauty problem
Be careful, though, that you use the story, not the Disney movie, which--as my daughter points out in MIRROR, MIRROR: 40 Folktales for Mothers and Daughters to Share--has elements of battered wife syndrome.
Jane
|
Don
Unregistered User
(10/24/01 4:14:36 am)
|
Beauty's Sacrifices
Courage, Sunday. Your topic is eminently defensible. De Beaumont's Beauty is thoroughly under the dominance of patriarchal ideas. Her desire to sacrifice herself might seem laudable and heroic (which may be how de Beaumont wants it to seem), but the thinking that drives her to make these sacrifices is based on the assumption that the happiness, well-being, health, and fate of men--esp. her father and the Beast--are her responsibility alone. In other words, she may be active in choosing do make the sacrifices she does, but the thinking and assumptions that drive her actions are those that serve best the interests of the men in her life, without whom she seems to have no purpose. Her actions, therefore, are dominated by patriarchy and her fear that men will die without her. Consider just two quotations--spanning the submine and the ridiculous--which in context become even more telling:
--"She dressed up in magnificent clothes just to make him [the Beast] happy and spent the day feeling bored to death while waiting for the clock to strike nine."
--"Beauty feared that she might be respnsible for his death." "I swear that I belong only to you."
Beauty's idea of love is defined by her guilt and fear that Beast is unhappy or dead: "Alas, I thought I felt only friendshiip for you, but the grief I am feeling makes me realize I can't live without you."
There's more to the argument and more nuance, of course; but the argument is certainly there. For support for your thesis read the introduction to the B&B section in Maria Tatar's THE CLASSIC FAIRY TALES, and chapter 1 in Jack Zipes, FAIRY TALE AS MYTH/MYTH AS FAIRY TALE.
|
DonnaQ
Registered User
(10/25/01 8:46:40 pm)
|
Further...
I really admire the B+B tales on many levels - The fairly smooth transition from parental love to mature love, the idea of a mutual transformation, and the notion that beauty is only skin deep are certainly admirable!
But I have to agree with Don - on a subversive level, there are a couple of things that are less than empowering when it comes to self-actualization, particularly revolving around the concept of selflessness as a virtue.
I'm giving a brief presentation on this in my class on Feminist Fairy Tales, and am still in the beginning draft stages, but what I'm thinking of is the distinction between being needed and being loved, between giving OF oneself and giving UP oneself. I may take the angle that the tale exploits the nurturing capabilities of the feminine in a manner that may contribute to the development of unhealthy expectations.
Revisionists have already addressed this issue. The Beast in McKinley's "Rose Daughter" encourages and supports Beauty's budding (ack - it's the pun fairy at work!) artistic endeavors and Napoli's characters also exhibit nurturing in a more mutually supportive way...
Any thoughts???
|
Carrie
Unregistered User
(10/26/01 6:51:43 am)
|
On Beast
Hello. Has anyone read a Beauty and the Beast tale from the Beast's point of view? I've been playing with the idea and thought it might make an interesting piece. Remarks?
Carrie
|
Heidi
Anne Heiner
ezOP
(10/26/01 8:37:32 am)
|
Re: On Beast
Carrie,
Donna Jo Napoli's "Beast" is the story from his point of view. But just because it has been done once, doesn't mean it should be done again!
Heidi
|
Kerrie
Registered User
(10/26/01 5:12:15 pm)
|
Re: On Beast
"But just because it has been done once, doesn't mean it should be done again!"
Erm.... I'm guessing you meant to write "doesn't mean it should
NOT be done again!" correct?
Forest frosts,
Kerrie
|
Heidi
Anne Heiner
ezOP
(10/26/01 9:21:32 pm)
|
Re: On Beast
Ah, but of course. That's what happens when I try to write a post while sitting at the reference desk. : )
Heidi
|
