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Comment
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Heidi
Anne Heiner
ezOP
(5/24/01 2:00:51 pm)
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Daughters become stars in the sky
Is anyone familiar with a tale about a family whose daughters become stars in the sky? Sounds familiar, but I am not identifying it. Wish I had an Aarne Thompson at home!
I am trying to identify the tale so I can perhaps locate a book I received an e-mail about. Perhaps even the book would sound familiar to you. I think I may have enough information about the book to identify it if I can identify this tale. This man provided many more clues than the usual inquiries do, such as a time frame! The question was:
"My wife remembers a fairy tale book from her childhood (50 years ago), with a blue cover and beautiful illustrations -- almost more of a picture book than a story book. In addition to the usual fairy tales, there were others that are not so familiar, including one about a family with daughters who became the stars in the sky. It was lost when her Grandmother died and the house was sold; I'd like to locate a copy of it for her, if I could figure out its title."
Heidi
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Kate
Unregistered User
(5/24/01 7:30:11 pm)
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Nielsen's East of the Sun?
Heidi,
I don't have a copy, but eight years ago I located EAST OF THE SUN, WEST OF THE MOON with illustrations by Kay Nielson (gorgeous color plates), this edition published around 1950 (though as you know the first edition was early 20th century), perhaps by Garden Books or some such, for a friend in New York who was desperate to have the edition she'd had in childhood--described exactly as your correspondent has described it so fondly for his wife, with the blue cover, etc. etc. It has to be the same book. I just feel that. (But why don't I know that tale, even though it sounds so familiar? Someone does I'm sure...). There are loads of different editions of this book, but the one from 1945 to 1950 or so, I want to say (my mother has it too, from 1950) is extremely beloved by many. It might be the one he seeks?
Kate
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spideri
Registered User
(5/25/01 7:17:27 pm)
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women become stars
it's a slanted connection, far afield, but there's a springtime sky myth from native northern california tradition in which a band of frisky women gatherers discovers a delicious new food - wild onions - on a mountainside. They become addicted.
Their husbands hate the resuling smell and banish the women and one little girl from the village. Using their magic power of song and their ropes of eagle feathers, the women and the child rise into the sky to become the pleiades.
the men repent and try to follow but they're too late
and they become taurus, one cluster below.
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Laura
McCaffrey
Registered User
(5/26/01 7:41:39 am)
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Re: Daughters become stars in the sky
I don't know about the particular book, but Atlas's seven daughters become stars - the Pleiades - when persued by Orion. The gods intervened, saving the girls, and both persuer and persued were made into constellations. Laura Mc
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CoryEllen
Registered User
(5/26/01 7:55:56 am)
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Re: Daughters become stars in the sky
In Arrernte mythology (Australian Aboriginal, Central Desert), there were seven sisters, pursued by seven men they didn't like. They fled into the sky to escape them, and became what we call the Pleiades. That's the origin of Seven Sisters Dreaming.
Cory-Ellen
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NancyMe
Registered User
(5/26/01 3:13:38 pm)
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Daughters become stars in the sky
There's an Onondaga tale about 8 children that danced when they weren't supposed to and their parents refused to feed them. They then rose into the sky lightheaded from hunger - 7 became the Pleiades and 1 looked back and became a falling star. I think it's from a book called *The Talking Stone*.
I have an old (very old, maybe not the right edition) copy of *East of the Sun West of the Moon* and will look at it for any stories about stars. I know that there is one about a moon popping out because I can remember the illustration by Kay Nielsen.
Nancy
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allysonrosen
Registered User
(5/29/01 7:56:30 am)
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Re: Daughters become stars in the sky
Is this not amazing that four different stories from vastly different geographica regions (Austrlia to N. America) all explain the creation of the Plaeides as a result of seven women fleeing a persuer? That just gave me shivers!
Allyson
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Heidi
Anne Heiner
ezOP
(5/29/01 10:13:52 pm)
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Re: Daughters become stars in the sky
Geesh, you would think I would remember the Pleiades after all of my years in astronomy! Sometimes this stuff is quite obvious unless you are looking right at it. I sent the information about Nielsen to my e-mailer, but I haven't heard a response. Thank you all! I enjoyed going back to my Nielsen books and spending an hour with his illustrations. The only collection of his I don't have is East of the Sun and I am reminded that I need to get my own copy.
Heidi
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Carolyn
Unregistered User
(6/7/01 8:08:20 pm)
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7 Sisters
In N. Scott Momaday's The Way to Rainy Mountain, he re-tells a Kiowa legend of seven sisters and their brother who turns into a bear and begins to chase the girls. The girls cry out to the creator to help them and Creator takes pity on them and moves the earth to send them to heaven, where they become the Pleides, or Seven Sisters. This takes place at Devil's Monument, Wyoming, (I think that's what it's called; the place where Close Encounters was filmed) and the scoring on the monument is said to be where the Bear Brother clawed at the earth trying to reach his sisters.
Sorry to have been such a lurker lately!
Carolyn
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Terri
Unregistered User
(6/8/01 3:57:30 am)
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The Pleiades
In the last volume of The Year's Best Fantasy & Horror, we published an absolutely terrific poem about the Seven Sisters called "Chorion and the Pleiades" by Sarah Van Arsdale. It's a real treat for myth and faiy tale fans, reprinted from Columbia University's little literary magazine.
And I second the recommendation of N. Scott Momaday's use of this material. Carolyn, it's always nice to see you here.
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Heidi
Unregistered User
(6/8/01 8:25:19 am)
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Devil's Tower
is the place in Wyoming and Close Encounters. My dad grew up in Wyoming, so I have been there a few times. Interesting place. : )
Heidi
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Carolyn
Unregistered User
(6/9/01 5:13:20 pm)
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Devil's Tower
Thanks, Heidi, I always forget what it is called. We have a similar monument in California called Devil's Postpile near Mammoth, which has similar scoring on it to Devil's Tower, and I get the two confused. Totally different regions, totally different geological formations, but similar. Hmmm...I had a grad student at Humboldt State whose thesis project was a slideshow called Legends & Landscapes in which she cataloged parts of California with the indigenous legends that sprouted from each place. I always thought it would be such a great idea for a book!
I also got the same chills Alyson did when realizing that several different cultures from areas of the world have similar legends about the Pleides. From our neck of the woods, it is said that the Pleides are the orginal ancestors, that the Sky People and the people who emerged from the earth mated and became the ancestors. Each of the Pleides represents to us each of the seven clans. I would love to see an anthology of stories about the Pleides. Any takers? Heidi? Terri? Me?? Eek!!
(it does sound tempting, doesn't it???)
And thanks for the welcome back, Terri. I've missed the board!
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Terri
Unregistered User
(6/13/01 5:11:25 am)
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Pleiades anthology
I think you should edit this one, Carolyn! And I want to write for it, please!
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Midori
Unregistered User
(6/13/01 6:31:58 am)
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putting on my star suit
Hey Carolyn,
let me add that it is great to have you back on the board again as well. And I agree with Terri...if there is such an anthology going I would love to write for it as well. Stars make for such an interesting contrast to our images of the moon, which seems whole and centered: stars are fractured and splintered bits of light scattered every where; they seem so separate, discreet and alone and yet always in the company of others. They fall from grace, they rise to new heights. Very cool.
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Carolyn
Unregistered User
(6/14/01 9:47:17 am)
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Midori, that outfit becomes you!
ok, all, add this to your list of things to do...statr compiling star stories from around the world and we'll see where this one goes! This sounds like a great project! Heidi, thanks for such a great topic...!
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Heidi
Unregistered User
(6/14/01 12:36:03 pm)
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Stars
Carolyn,
As I was reviewing my string games for a school group, I rediscovered the pattern for "Many Stars," yet another incarnation of our star sisters. I will look into the versions if I can find the right resources here at my library.
I think the topic is a great one and relates well to my love for astronomy. I recently saw an exhibit at the Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena that focused on artistic representations of the universe. It was quite intriguing and now I wish this discussion had occurred earlier!
Heidi
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janeyolen
Unregistered User
(6/14/01 9:54:12 pm)
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Existing books
Carolyn and all: If I were home (and not in Scotland) I could put my hands on the volumes. But I have at least one (if not two) collections of star folk tales on my shelves. Just can't remember the titles. So this doesn't mean there could be another volume--just that one such collection alredy exists.
Jane
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Carolyn
Unregistered User
(6/16/01 4:32:01 pm)
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Star books
Jane,
Let me know if you come across these books sometime in the near future. I've seen different star stories in other books, like Spider Woman's Granddaughters and The Woman Who Fell From The Sky; but nothing all together. Will you be home any time soon?
Cheers all,
Carolyn
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janeyolen
Unregistered User
(6/16/01 10:41:26 pm)
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Soon
Carolyn--as I am in Scotland till Oct 1, it will certainly not be SOOON. Sorry.
Jane
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spideri
Registered User
(6/19/01 7:21:50 am)
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star stories
let me know if you want "wild onions" to add to the star stories soup. any cooks at work?
3 books of starry tales:
"Elinda Who Danced in the Sky:an Estonian Folktale" adfapted by Lynn Moroney, Children's Book Press 1990
The Heavenly Zoo: Legends & Tales of the Stars, retold by Alison Lurie, FSG 1979
They Danced in the Sky: Nastive American Star Myths, Monroa & Williamson, Houghton Mifflin.1987
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Laura
Registered User
(6/26/01 9:19:20 pm)
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Star daughters
While working on my kitsune project, I was browsing through a Korean folktale index and found this citation – it seemed pretty relevant! The English of the author apparently wasn’t the best, but it’s a very interesting source.
216. ORIGIN OF THE THREE STARS
I. A strange Buddhist monk and a pregnancy of the daughter. (1) A rich man went up to the capital to take a government post and left his daughter in charge of the house. (2) A Buddhist monk came begging alms and asked to fill the bowl right up. However much the maid put into the bowl it could not be filled. At last the daughter tried, but she couldn't fill it completely. (3) After all the monk came to stay for overnight and slept in the daughter's room. (4) Next morning the monk left and thereafter she became pregnant.
II. The daughter's ordeal and reappearance of the monk. (1) Her father returned home and on hearing her [sic] daughter's unchastity he determinded [sic] to kill her, but he failed. (2) Her father cast her into an underground cell. From that time the monk appeared in the underground cell every night and fed her. (3) She gave birth to triplets. Her father was proved that the monk was the father of these three children and he granted the marriage of the monk with his daughter.
III. When their three children died they were set in the sky as the three stars of the constellation Vega.
From:
Title: A type index of Korean folktales /
Author(s): Ch‘oe, In-hak.
Publication: Seoul, Korea : Myong Ji University Pub.,
Year: 1979
Standard No: LCCN: 80-148315
There are a number of other celestial-object tales, but since that isn’t my focus I wasn’t really looking for them.
Laura |
