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Alex
Unregistered User
(2/7/01 6:01:47 pm)
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Marriage in Fairy Tales
Just having some difficulty posting this so bear with me. I'm working on a paper on how marriage is made meaningful in 2 fairy tales. I'm thinking of Cinderella and Snow White but would appreciate any opinions or suggestions from anyone. Thanks!
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Helen
Registered User
(2/8/01 5:07:02 am)
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hmmm...
Dear Alex:
I'm not so sure if it is ...
In both tales, I think that the marriage acts as a kind of a closing sequence for the "happy ending", simply because it was an expected stage of life for women during the periods in which these tales were first told. In Cinderella, marriage does act as an "out" from her miserable family life, but mostly, I think, because it was an acceptable goal for a virtuous young maiden to have (as opposed to, say, slaying the stepmother like a wicked dragon). In Snow White, marriage seems to play almost no role in the adventures of the heroine ... although it could be argued that her troubles are *caused* by marriage in the first place (the king to the stepmother) or by approaching her relationship with the dwarves as a kind of marriage in and of itself.
If your main point is marriage in fairy tales, why not use one of the ones in which, say, a fiancee must quest to save her betrothed? It might be easier to make your points. Just an idea ... I'm suffering from the flu, and therefore possibly delusional. Feel free to ignore me,
Helen
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Midori
Unregistered User
(2/8/01 5:50:28 am)
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marriage
Alex,
I agree with Helen that marriage doesn't occupy as big a theme in SW and C. except as the suitable closing--the re-emergence of the girl into society as an adult woman (symbolized by marriage). However a look at Beauty and The Beast--where trust, love, loyalty, courage, compassion are all tested (even the bonds of the couple against the reasonably happy bonds of family) as the couple work their way towards marriage. Also, East of the Sun, West of the Moon, where as Helen suggests,the young woman not only changes herself in the journey, but rescues her future husband from his imprisonment....again marriage as a collective act between bride and groom to save each other. And one last narrative that has always been my favorite, though you may to hunt a bit for in the library, "The Monky Girl", which is a Sudanese story and can be found in a collection "Erotic African Nights" by Leo Froebinius (I think that's the title--more or less.). There a young prince "marries" a female monkey (who is really a fantastic princess in disguise) and everything about the marriage, their relationship must be tested before the true strength of marriage unity is revealed. It's a very juicy tale for this topic--though in a way a reverse version of Beauty and the Beast.
good luck
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Terri
Registered User
(2/8/01 6:33:05 am)
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Re: marriage
Alex,
I have to agree with Helen and Midori. Particularly in the case of Snow White. In the Grimms version and older versions of the tale, the prince doesn't show up till the very end. He's a total stranger to Snow White, but falls in love with her beautiful body and face while she's in the glass coffin and persuades the dwarves to give the corpse to him. As his servants bear the casket away, one stumbles, causing the poison apple to fly from Snow White's mouth. She wakes up and marries him, but in a sense she is his "property" already. Is this "marriage"? It's almost necrophilia...all the more evident in older versions of the tale, such as those from 16th century Italy. It was only when Walt Disney got hold of the tale in 20th century America that the prince was changed into someone who knew and loved Snow White from the very beginning of the story.
For more history on Snow White:www.endicott-studio.com/forsga.html
For more history on Cinderella:www.endicott-studio.com/forashs.html
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Alex
Unregistered User
(2/8/01 10:37:01 am)
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marriage
See I was looking along the lines of the implications of remarriage. But that may be too difficult to elaborate on. I'm lookin at Beauty and East of the Sun now and they do appear to be more useful in my comparison. Thanks again and I definitely appreciate any opinions. Feel better soon!
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Midori
Unregistered User
(2/8/01 10:52:35 am)
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"remarriage"
Alex,
I'm not sure I understood your last post. Did you mean to write "remarriage" in reference to the endings of the tales?
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Alex
Unregistered User
(2/8/01 10:57:24 am)
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Remarriage
I don't think I was clear. I was looking at another component of marriage in Snow White and Cinderella being remarriage and what these tales imply that it does to a person (the Queen and Stepmother). I think that there is enough to go on with this but perhaps it may be too difficult to build on.
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Midori
Unregistered User
(2/8/01 12:44:09 pm)
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thanks for the clarification
Actually that does make for an interesting examination of the two presentations of "marriage"--the seeming success of the first marriage (which produces a beautiful child) and the cold problematic second marriage, which seems bent on being destructive. In an inverse way it points to the strengths of marriage as a productive unit, but featuring the destructive aspect of marriage when it works against the unity of the couple. You might also think about the attempted marriage of the young heroine of Donkeyskin--the father trying to marry his daughter because she looks like the deceased mother. Another example of remarriage going horribly wrong.
Remarriage, or second marriages always seem to parallel in a reverse fashion the first one, and at the same time comment on what marriage ought to be... Sometimes the dual marriages are also shaped by differing responses to the fantastic world--The first wife may have a positive magical force (drops of protective blood on a handkerchief as in The Goose Girl) and the second wife often has a much more destructive relationship with the fantastic (the step mother in SW is versed in black arts...the stepmother in the Loathesome Dragon uses black magic to transform the daughter into a dragon.) So the two marriages may also represent two different relationships to the fantastic as well.
cool topic actually.
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Terri
Registered User
(2/9/01 6:06:00 am)
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Re: thanks for the clarification
Ah! Thanks for that explanation, Alex. That makes a lot of sense. And I agree with Midori: cool topic!
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Helen
Unregistered User
(2/9/01 7:26:50 am)
| Del | ... ditto!
Motion carried, it *definitely* sounds like an interesting topic. I feel obtuse for not seeing it now ... oh well. Too much cold medicine, I suppose.
Good luck with it, whichever way you choose to go.
Helen
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Richard
Parks
Registered User
(2/9/01 9:28:16 am)
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Re: thanks for the clarification
That's an aspect I hadn't thought about before, the good vs bad marriages in fairy tales. Marriage was often the goal, or at least the point of closure, for many such. Yet we did get examples where it had gone horribly wrong, and always in the second marriage. Can anyone think of an example of a bad _first_ marriage?
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Heidi
Anne Heiner
ezOP
(2/9/01 10:46:49 am)
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Re: thanks for the clarification
I think of a bad first marriage in Rapunzel. The wife is greedy and demanding while the husband promises away their firstborn when he gets scared. Of course, that isn't a generous interpretation, but it is a marriage in which they lose their child through their actions.
Of course, we also have to consider the *first* marriages in earlier versions of the tales before there were stepmothers added by the Grimms and others. Hansel and Gretel comes tops to my list in which the mother--later the stepmother--wants to essentially kill the children so she has enough to eat. The husband, once again a weak man to his wife's demands, goes along with the plan. Not until she is dead is the home safe to return to. Interesting to consider that the story (and others) implies a safe haven is available either in homes with a strong and good marriage or a single parent.
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Laura
McCaffrey
Registered User
(2/9/01 10:51:39 am)
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Re: thanks for the clarification
Interesting point, but I believe it is the husband's second marriage, not necessarily the wife's. In Cinderella, the wife has been married before, but not, I believe, in Snow White. Or at least, her marital history is not specified in the versions I've read. Laura Mc
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Alex
Unregistered User
(2/12/01 10:11:36 am)
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Marriage vs. Remarriage
Okay, you guys have ALL been so helpful but now I'm stuck between the two. I'm not sure which way to go with this topic. There are so many channels I can explore now.
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