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bob2
Registered User
(12/16/01 12:27:27 pm)
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The Frog Prince
What are some possible themes or symbols I can use for writing a fairy tale anaylsis of the Frog Prince???
Edited by: bob2 at: 12/16/01 1:55:14 pm
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Jess
Unregistered User
(12/16/01 3:18:49 pm)
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Frog Prince
Bob,
Be creative here. Why don't you come up with some ideas and then ask for where you might take them. Or perhaps you could take them a ways yourself and then ask us to help direct you farther or direct you to similar tales or embelishments. There is so much in that tale. What do you think? Maybe you could give us some enlightment.
Jess
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Midori
Unregistered User
(12/17/01 3:53:03 am)
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Frog Prince
Bob,
My guess is, that this a semester's end paper and you are probably running short of time. So here's a fast thumbnail of where I would start. First, think of this tale as a "rites of passage" tale--both the young princess and the transformed Prince are moving from adolescence to adulthood, from being single, into a married couple. But to get there several things need to occur--the young woman needs a reason to leave home (in exogamus societies, women wind up at the house of marriage, whereas in straight hero tales, the young man returns home to claim the throne) and the Prince needs someone to break the spell that has transformed him into a frog (think Beauty and the Beast--similar idea). The young woman by eventually breaking the spell (and in a sense bringing the Prince back to life--as a human being) underscores her fertile capacity as a woman and bride...and it suggests the creative unity of marriage.
But Jess is right--there's lots of ways to approach that tale. I'm not even sure which variant you have. I know there quite a few articles that discuss the girl's reluctance to admit the frog into her chambers (payment for his having retrieved the ball) as a fear of sex (well hell, I'm not sure I'd want a frog in my bed). And I think a google search or EBSCO search at a university library should bring up quite a few possibilities. It's ccerainly a popular tale with pyschologists.
good luck...and stop back once you've narrowed it down. The more specific the question the easier it is to make useful suggestions.
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janeyolen
Unregistered User
(12/17/01 4:48:08 am)
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More
Bettleheim has quite a bit on the Frog Prince in USES OF ENCHANTMENT and I have some in my TOUCH MAGIC.
Good luck.
Jane
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Terri
Registered User
(12/17/01 7:44:08 am)
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Re: More
If you can track down a copy of "Disenchantments: An Anthology of Fairy Tale Poetry" edited by Wolfgang Mieder, it' got some great modern poems based on The Frog Prince. In particular, take a look at Susan Mitchell's poem "From the Journals of the Frog Prince," originally published in the New Yorker, in which the married and disenchanted prince is looking back on his days as a frog with wistful longing. Terrific poem.
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janeyolen
Unregistered User
(12/17/01 9:26:48 am)
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poetry
Ann Sexton's poem on the Frog Prince (in Transformations) will knock your socks off.
Jane
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bob2
Registered User
(12/17/01 2:18:02 pm)
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Re: poetry
Ok Thanks for the suggestions. What are some psychoanalytical themes for it??
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bob2
Registered User
(12/17/01 2:23:05 pm)
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question for Jane
Ok sorry, but I'm new at this whole thing. What are USES OF ENCHANTMENT and TOUCH MAGIC?
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Midori
Unregistered User
(12/17/01 2:37:10 pm)
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Uses and Touch
Bob,
"Uses of Enchantment" was written by Bruno Bettleheim and is a pyschonalytical study of folktales. It gets rather heavy handed and didactic in places--which is why many of us on the board can be rather impatient with it--but if you are really new to thinking about fairy tales, it's worth a look...before you go on to more contemporary work. "Touch Magic" is by Jane Yolen (the Jane who replied to you!) and is a first collection of essays on folktales which I am certain you would find readable, informative and enjoyable---as well as full of insights.
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Jess
Unregistered User
(12/17/01 2:37:20 pm)
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What have you come up with
Bob,
I see you are on? Question: What have you come up with? I am really curious here. I so wanted to challenge you to think. I know with finals looming it can be difficult, but with this tale in particular you could take it many different directions.
I always liked the rebellious nature of the princess - and also found the bed chamber thing creepy. Also, where is the quid pro quo here. This is definitely an unbalanced contract the princess has made - there is little or no effort made on behalf of the frog, and yet the princess has to share everything with him. Hmmm. Is the unfair nature of this somehow punishment for the princess's materialism? Or her childishness? Or her selfishness? Why does the King enforce the contract? What benefit is there to the princess? To the frog? To him?
Good luck.
Jess
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janeyolen
Unregistered User
(12/17/01 4:16:20 pm)
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equals
in some ways the frog and princess are equal in awfulness. The frog forces a bad deal to the poor child who just wants her golden ball back. She refuses to honor what is really sexual blackmail. ("Put me in your little bed or I'll tell your Dad.")
But then--in the German version--when he demands she pick him up and put him in her bed,
she picks him up all right and throws him against the wall. Wherein he turns into a handsome prince. WHAT??? Reward for bad behaviour? Or for being able to say no to something bestial? It is indeed a fascinating story.
Jane
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ZMethos
Registered User
(12/17/01 8:47:15 pm)
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Re: equals
Or maybe the frog prompted the princess to throw him against the wall, knowing that only such an act of violence against him would return him to his true form. So that he was only being awful out of necessity but in actuality was really very kind-hearted. Which means the princess probably brow-beated him for the rest of his life, making him wish he'd remained a frog. . .
~M. Pepper
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Kate
Unregistered User
(12/17/01 8:57:47 pm)
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Frog Prince
Jane--I want to second your comment that it's a fascinating story. The Frog Prince is one story that I read to people just to astonish them with the sheer nonsensical sensicality (not a word, surely) of fairy tales. I am mystified and adoring of this little tale!
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Midori
Unregistered User
(12/18/01 3:47:24 am)
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evocative images
Kate, Jane,
Yes! I love it when she throws the frog against the wall...but I think as an audience we are meant to find the whole moment outrageous--the story is a wonderful combination of rites of passage--which god knows within any given oral narrative culture is given a wide range of treatment from the sublime to the ridiculous--and very emotionally evocative images--a frog in a bed, a frog against the wall turning into the prince--it's wonderfully disturbing and engaging and I think that's its popularity. I think it would be quite possible to examine the underpinnings for our reactions--why it's disturbing, what it might suggest visually (in the very concrete images) abstract notions about what's appealing and what's icky about sex/adulthood/marriage...hmmm and frogs. But I also think it's a story teller recognizing a crowd pleaser when she sees one (not to mention her own peculiar brand of humor in making a man a frog and weathly spoiled girl a bit of a brat.) For me it's up there with The Good Girl-Bad Girl narratives.
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janeyolen
Unregistered User
(12/18/01 4:39:48 am)
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throwing v throwing up
I'd like to add that I adore the difference between the more genteel English version where she kisses him (without throwing up) and the German where she throws him against the wall. A hardier soul than I in these PC days might make a comment about national characteristics. <G>
That being said, there's lots of medieval frog-as-sexual-symbol going on here, which both Bettleheim and Sexton in her poem play with.
Jane
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Jess
Unregistered User
(12/18/01 8:05:27 am)
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More thoughts
All,
Yes, I actually reveal in the part where she throws the frog against the wall. It emphasizes the immaturity of the girl - something that always bugs me about this story is the childlike nature of her. But what I have always found even more fascinating is the girl-father relationship. He is the one that enforces the promise the girl has made, in a humiliating and controlling way. It is he that she really rebells against. What is the relationship there? And the King of course has the power to supercede the promise - afterall is it really enforceable without him?
Oh, Kerrie, this is a good example of a tale made lighter with time.
Jess
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Midori
Unregistered User
(12/18/01 10:21:13 am)
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old man against the wall
Then maybe it isn't the frog, but the authority of the old man that she throws against the wall--such an act of rejection simultaneously frees her from following the negative aspect of her father's wishes...while replacing the old man in her life with a more suitable younger male in marriage. Now if only Electra had had a frog to toss around.
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Jess
Unregistered User
(12/18/01 11:12:29 am)
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Frog Prince.
Midori,
Laughing here. I clearly have too much time on my hands this week.
One last(?) comment on the Frog Prince. I have always thought this tale would make a wonderful first semester Contract Law final. It has everything: the elements of a contract, inadequate consideration, competency of the parties, unconscionabe provisions, breaches, damages, etc. Would be fun to read the answers.
Jess
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