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Kerrie
Unregistered User
(10/21/00 5:43:05 pm)
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Glass...
In the fairy tales, there's mention of glass slippers, a glass casket, and a mirror (looking glass). Are there other mentions of objects made of glass (drinking goblets, keys, etc?) in the tales, myths, legends, etc? (Was the sliver in the boy's eye in the Snow Queen tale made of glass or ice? I forget. And does ice count?) And any thoughts on their significance?
Thanks!
(Heidi- I'll post soon about Rose and the Beast- I just want to refresh my memory first!)
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Midori
Unregistered User
(10/24/00 4:43:59 am)
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transformative matter
Kerrie,
Your question has me thinking along a couple of lines. The properties of glass, like the properties of iron are transmuttable, given enough heat. It is a substance that can waver between a solid state and liquid. I know that blacksmiths have often been regarded ambivilently by traditional communities because of their ability to work with matter that is in a state of transformation--almost like a form of alchemy. Such power is regarded as both necessary, but also a little frightening. Add to it, the manipulation of fire and its ambiguious properties. So a glassmaker and the production of glass is similiar to the Blacksmith and the production of iron object--making use of fire to transform matter, the very plastic nature of the element and its refusal to remain a solid (glass never entirely surrenders its liquid state, and even old glass windows are thicker at the bottom than the top because over time they "melt" back down).
So it would seem that the use of glass objects, mirrors, ice has a parallel to the use of iron objects as objects constructed of materials that suggest the presents of transformation, magic and alchemy and alterable states if worked on with enough heat! Perhaps in traditional communities the emotional meaning of these objects would have had stronger connections for the audience than they do today (a glass slipper wouldn't have been just a fashion statement but a collection of "signs" coded into the image of the shoe, ambiguous transmuttable glass, the point of transition in the young woman's life) It might be interesting to have a look at how those images are used...
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CoryEllen
Registered User
(10/24/00 12:19:44 pm)
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Re: Glass...
I'm thinking of tales in which people (usually women, I believe) have to climb mountains made of glass, frequently in shoes made of iron - "For seven long years I looked for you, seven mountains I climbed for you, seven pairs of shoes wore through for you, now will you not wake and turn to me?" I'm probably badly misquoting here, but that was the general idea.
I'm also thinking of glass not as transparent, which is a fairly recent characteristic, but as translucent due to thickness and irregularity. You could look through it, but couldn't be sure of what you were seeing on the other side. It twisted your visions.
Another thought: Like mirrors, glass is reflective - unlike mirrors (except police ones), with glass you can shift between looking *at* and looking *through*. And that brings me to the links between glass and water - the otherlands or Faerie countries that are always just on the other side of the glass/mirror or away over the ocean - or under the ocean, for that matter.
Isn't there some question over the slipper of glass? Hasn't it been argued that it was a slipper of fur, and that someone mistranslated at some point?
The shard in Kay's eye is from a mirror made by a goblin, but since it ends up freezing his heart and sending him to the Snow Queen's domain, it's certainly ambiguous whether the mirror was made of ice to begin with.
Please forgive the stream of consciousness here - no time to edit.
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Terri
Registered User
(10/25/00 12:14:47 am)
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Glass/fur
There are two schools of thought on the slipper of glass in Cinderella.
Some folklorists say that it was a mistranslation from the early French, and the slipper should really be of fur. Other folklorists point out that there are glass slippers in older variants of the tale found in other places around the world. I'm betting on the later, myself. It's hard to imagine that the elegant, dress savvy French would send their maiden to the ball in furry slippers....
Edited by: Terri at: 10/25/00
12:16:05 am
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Midori
Unregistered User
(10/25/00 4:58:57 am)
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furlined shoes
Hah...furry slippers. I rather like that. Though might they have been fur lined, or edged in fur? I seem to remember from some books on Renaissance dress very lovely, silk embroidered slippers lined in some sleek fur....
In any case, Cinderella's slipper might not have been the best example! Cory...yes glass mountains and iron shoes often appear together...as do glass mountains (whereon sit rather cold and heartless Princesses) who are challenged by heroes in black iron armor, with cleated iron horseshoes that enable them to scale to the top....by the way I like your stream of consciousness...
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Ellen
Unregistered User
(10/25/00 6:41:33 am)
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Glass
Good morning, everyone:
Yes, glass mountains come to mind, as do looking glasses all sorts of crystals. And for what it's worth on the subject of glass mountains: According to Maria Leach, "Amber mountains and amber islands were the forerunners of the glass mountains and islands in the folktales of Scandanavia, central and eastern Europe, and the British isles....The word glass, originally meaning 'resin' or 'amber' was applied to glass when that product was introduced into northern Europe."
Cheers,
E.
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CoryEllen
Registered User
(10/25/00 12:43:58 pm)
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Re: Glass
Ooo, nifty, Ellen. I might have to play with the amber idea. I love finding out new things like that!
Midori - I'm glad you like my stream of consciousness; I nearly drown in it sometimes.
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Kerrie
Registered User
(10/28/00 8:24:02 am)
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Re: Glass
Thank you so much everyone for your input so far! I'm working on collecting several of my poems inspired by fairy tales, and I wanted the title and maybe a small intro to have something to do with glass. I had no idea of the complexity of all the symbolism AND history of glass. Some of it I was familiar with, but I never thought to think of glass-blowers as similar to blacksmiths, nor the relationship with alchemy. And the amber connection is fascinating as well!
Do you know which story/stories mention the glass mountains? Does anyone remember if "Hans My Hedgehog," from Henson's Storyteller series, mentioned that?
And CoryEllen, I , too, like your stream of consciousness. MIne often works the same, with webs and branches, tangenting and coming back. I really don't know how I manage sometimes!
This may sound odd, but thinking of the connection with iron now makes me think of the belief that fairies can be warded away by iron. Any such properties of glass?
Edited by: Kerrie at: 10/28/00
10:16:24 am
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Karen
Unregistered User
(10/28/00 2:21:22 pm)
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Glass churches
The connection with fairy tales may be tenuous, but in Peter Carey's "Oscar and Lucinda" they build a glass church and float it down a river to a small town in the middle of nowhere. Eventually, the sun cracks the panes and the church begins to sink... so the glass church becomes the glass coffin. A transformation of sorts- glass as the ethereal medium, insubstantial and perpetually shifting forms- a bit like fairy tales really!
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Kate
Unregistered User
(10/30/00 2:06:56 pm)
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Ice, Snow, Glass
I am honestly not--I promise--plugging my essay collection, but A.S. Byatt wrote an essay called "Ice, Snow, Glass" for Mirror, Mirror on the Wall that is all about this. I learned so much from it, myself. I can xerox it and mail it to you, if you want a copy...!
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Kerrie
Registered User
(10/30/00 2:27:06 pm)
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Re: Ice, Snow, Glass
I would love to read it! E-mail me and I'll send you my address! (Can I order the book directly from you, or best through the publisher, or Heidi's or Terri's sites?)
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Heidi
Unregistered User
(10/30/00 2:45:18 pm)
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Mirror, Mirror
Kerrie, it is a great book. I have it listed on my site in several places, but I am also revamping the book areas of my site and I haven't gotten to it yet.
And it doesn't matter how you get a copy, just be sure to add one to your library. It is worth the price of admission.
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Kate
Unregistered User
(10/30/00 3:17:00 pm)
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Book
Heidi,
Thanks for the compliments! I wish the volume could have been triple the length it was. I keep hoping Doubleday will let me do a 'sequel' soon. You never know.
And Kerrie, do I have your email address? I should probably know the answer to that, shouldn't I. Anyway let me know so you can send me your mailing address.
You can definitely order the book online from several places (I just know the big ones but get all my books from Powells.com, here a great store here in Portland). But I am more than happy to send you the chapter, and save you some money. Honestly. More than happy.
Best,
Kate
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Kerrie
Registered User
(10/30/00 3:27:40 pm)
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Re: Mirror, Mirror
Heidi: Oh, I'm sure it is! I just
like the money to be divied up in the most beneficial manner (ie,
the people already making gazillions (corporations and monopolies)
don't get the highest cut).
Kate: kerriec@mailandnews.com I look forward to reading it, and
anticipate wanting to buy it! (I'd secretly love to contribute to
the next, if accepting unknowns)
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Gail
de Vos
Registered User
(10/30/00 7:04:25 pm)
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Re: Mirror, Mirror
Kate, just wanted to say that Anna and I used your book liberally in putting our two collections on folktales together. It came into our lives at the exact time we needed it -- and for that alone I need to say thaink you but for those who haven't read it, I cannot recommend it enough. Thanks, Gail
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Terri
Registered User
(10/31/00 2:14:42 am)
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Re: Mirror, Mirror
Kerrie: If you buy Mirror, Mirror via the Endicott site, then Amazon kicks back some money to our
children's charity. It's a fabulous book; you're going to love it.
Kate: So glad to see you on this board again! We were worried we'd lost you, with all the moves....
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Kerrie
Registered User
(10/31/00 3:54:43 am)
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Ordering through Endicott
Quick question, Terri (or anyone else who knows):
Is there any way to verify it went through and the donation made? I've ordered through your site at least once now, but I think because it knows me, it has a cookie set up for me, and leaves out the Endicott part of the web addresss (I've seen it on other computers too until it recognizes me). Any idea how to verify that?
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Terri
Registered User
(10/31/00 9:30:44 am)
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Hmmm....
Kerrie: I'm not entirely sure how to verify that. You may have to ask Customer Service at Amazon.
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Heidi
Unregistered User
(10/31/00 11:49:34 am)
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Amazon.com orders
The Amazon orders are kept anonymous by purchases although it is possible for associates to check which books have been sold on certain days. The only way to verify (that I know of) is to know which day you purchased the books and let someone with the Endicott authorization check to see if the titles are listed as purchases made on the site for that given date. I check to see which titles are selling and also to see if anyone has found titles I don't know of yet! But I do not know who purchased the books.
Kerrie, the purchases should be going through if you have linked directly from Endicott before placing the items in your shopping cart. The reference number you see in the URL is an identification they assign once you start moving around on Amazon that has all of the pertinent info they need. The link with the site name in it that you see initially is how associates are asked to link to Amazon so they can be credited. Items from your wish list or previously in your cart will not be credited. Remember that any books that are linked to directly from a site get a 15% cut instead of a 5% cut. So if you see it listed on the site, try to link directly from it. I purchase through Endicott myself since associates are not allowed to buy through their own sites.
I don't know if I just made any sense, but feel free to ask me for clarification!
Heidi
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Kate
Unregistered User
(10/31/00 1:06:54 pm)
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Thanks, etc.
Gail, Kerrie, Terri, Heidi:
Thank you so much again for the comments. I don't know about all of you, but I tend to get pretty insecure about my work--even though I just collected that book and didn't write it. There's so much out there that's phenomenal it is easy to ignore one's own work, don't you think? In any case, I am beyond glad the essays in Mirror are useful to you, and your kind words are very useful to me. (I'm a bit overworked right now, sorry if I sound completely nuts).
And no, the board didn't lose me; I lost the board! But now I've found it again. Thankfully.
By the way, I had no idea that purchasing the book through the Endicott site was linked to a charitable donation. That's fantastic. Excellent. Good news.
Kate
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Kerrie
Registered User
(10/31/00 4:45:06 pm)
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Thanks Heidi...
Thanks for the clarification.
I will only use my wishlist as a guide and just link direct from
now on. (My list is growing, though not as large as yours appeared
to be!) Booklovers unite! Back to glass, anyone?
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