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Author
Comment
mini bon bon
Registered User
(11/8/07 4:49 pm)

Help. Need evidence for homosexuality in Grimm Fairytales.
hi.

I am writing a paper arguing for homosexual marriage based on the breakdown of marriage for procreation and the breakdown of traditional gender roles in marriage.

The class uses only the Grimm versions and so I need some evidence to suggest either the breakdown of the traditional gender roles in marriage.... and perhaps, are there any Grimm versions of tales that suggest homosexuality?

My argument is that the feminist movement empowered women to the point of un-defining her role in society. Marriage is not for having children anymore. Marriage is a show of love. And that therefore to not allow gay marriages is to not allow them into a union where they love each other. The emphasis on marriage is love not procreation so why deny it to them?

Any comments, suggestions, evidence? I would appreciate some heated discussion. At least I found out where my stand on homosexuality is, but now the rewrite calls for more evidence (ie. Length)
thanks
jennifer

AliceCEB
Registered User
(11/8/07 5:49 pm)


Re: Help. Need evidence for homosexuality in Grimm Fairytal
I'm not sure I understand. Are you required to support your argument using Grimms' fairy tales as evidence? If I understand your argument correctly, you are tying it to the feminist movement, but this occurred after the Grimms wrote their tales.

I am confused.

mini bon bon
Registered User
(11/8/07 8:02 pm)


tahnx for replying,
I am talking about how the gender roles exhibited in the Grimm's fairy tales has changed so much since the Industrial Revolution and the Feminist movement that it expands the possibilities presented to the woman and takes the emphasis of procreation out of marriage.

The evidence I am seeking is gender roles and their implications. Like tailors seem to be wimpy, weak characters because they are effeminate in their trade. And crossing of gender roles.

does this explain my topic better?

Veronica Schanoes
Registered User
(11/8/07 8:27 pm)


Re: tahnx for replying,
I confess that I'm still a little confused. Are you looking for evidence that gender roles in the Grimms' tales represent the beginning of the change precipitated by the Industrial Revolution? Or evidence that the roles in Grimms' tales represent the more constrained gender roles before the Industrial Revolution?

Be careful about importing contemporary ideas about gender backwards--I don't know of any evidence to suggest that being a tailor was considered an effeminate occupation.

Rosemary Lake
Registered User
(11/9/07 5:26 am)


Re: tahnx for replying,
If you took the view that sex 'does not exist' in the world of these stories ... so that any sort of exclusive, first-priority, long-term bonding, such as setting up housekeeping together or travelling closely together, can be seen as the equivalent of 'marriage' ... then there are a lot of tales you might use.

Hm. One difference between the 'partner' tales and tales about literal marriage, is that marriage is usually the END of the story -- but usually a partnership is begun near the beginning of the story and we watch the partners having an adventure together. This might be tending the wrong way for you, unless you want to see gay partnership in our world as 'love by the rules of friendship' or something like that. But it does fit with bonding where both partners are free to focus on something other than children (adventure, exploration).

Many tales have a mentor-mentee relationship between two males: Puss and Boots, the fox and his mentee in the Fenist type of story, etc. Between females there's the fairy godmother type, or the little earth-cow or, iirc, a black bull that carries and instructs the heroine, or Mother Hulda.

There are male-bonding tales like the Seven Soldiers in which the male friends after much travel together help one of them win a bride -- who is usually treacherous and not loved by the hero. In Iron John the male/male loyalty excludes the bride.

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