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Author
Comment
thiskidd87
Registered User
(7/26/07 1:07 am)


adaptation of the frog prince
i have to compare the grimms version of the frog prince with the version that has the popular kiss for an assignment. i am just wondering who writes or what origin is the version of the frog prince where the princess kisses the frog to turn him back into a prince.

MaryCatelli
Registered User
(7/26/07 6:12 pm)


Re: adaptation of the frog prince
The site's got some comments on it here.

Rosemary Lake
Registered User
(7/26/07 10:58 pm)


frog princess
This is probably too far out for your purpose, but there's another type of tale where three princes go out looking for brides. The elders find conventional human brides iirc, but the youngest finds a frog princess (who excels the humans in household tasks). By the loyalty of the young prince, the frog princess turns into a human.

This might be an older and more established tale than the gentler version of the 'princess had to promise in exchange for a favor' tale at the link above.

MaryCatelli
Registered User
(7/27/07 7:52 pm)


Re: frog princess
I don't think the Frog Princess tales are found any older than the Frog Prince ones.

Certainly Frog Prince is widespread and has many variants, like
The Queen Who Sought a Drink From A Certain Well
and The Well of the World's End

Rosemary Lake
Registered User
(7/29/07 1:06 am)


older than the gentler version
The two tale types may be of equal age for all I know. But does the GENTLER version of the 'frog does a favor about water and insists on a promise kept' go back before the Grimms, or is it an ending they more or less made up?

The other type is different all through: brothers go to seek brides, brides are compared for housekeeping skills, etc.

MaryCatelli
Registered User
(7/29/07 5:44 pm)


Re: older than the gentler version
What are you citing as the gentler version? If you mean the kiss, that isn't even in Grimm.

janeyolen
Registered User
(8/1/07 11:02 am)


Easyn to remember
English kiss, German squish (against the wall.)

Jane

MaryCatelli
Registered User
(8/1/07 4:24 pm)


Re: Easyn to remember
The Grimm version, of course, has the moral that if a young man is acting like a toad, you put your foot down (or him against the wall), and lo and behold he will turn into a prince and behave properly henceforth.

janeyolen
Registered User
(8/2/07 3:24 am)


Re: Easy to remember
Except--it was the princess who was acting like a toad! Not keeping her promises, welshing on the payment, etc.

Jane

PS Is "welshing" a racism word? If so, I shall expunge it from my vocabulary.

MaryCatelli
Registered User
(8/2/07 4:56 pm)


Re: Easy to remember
The prince was asking to share her bed before they married. Up to that point, the princess had, however reluctant, done what he asked. When he did that, she quite justly decided: toad.

moonway
Registered User
(8/2/07 7:21 pm)


Re: Easy to remember
The verb is "welch" not "welsh".

Kaleigh Way

Veronica Schanoes
Registered User
(8/3/07 7:22 am)


Re: Easy to remember
Indeed, Mary. One does not have to fulfill promises to sleep with someone, no matter what. Throw the bastard again the wall, I say.

janeyolen
Registered User
(8/3/07 8:48 am)


Re: Easy to remember
Ladies, ladies--the story goes like this:

"The frog answered, "I do not care for thy clothes, thy pearls and jewels, or thy golden crown, but if thou wilt love me and let me be thy companion and play-fellow, and sit by thee at thy little table, and eat off thy little golden plate, and drink out of thy little cup, and sleep in thy little bed -- if thou wilt promise me this I will go down below, and bring thee thy golden ball up again."

"Oh yes," said she, "I promise thee all thou wishest, if thou wilt but bring me my ball back again." She, however, thought, "How the silly frog does talk! He lives in the water with the other frogs, and croaks, and can be no companion to any human being!"


He was upfront with her. She accepted all his wishes but NEVER intended to keep her promises. Any of them! This was not a case of changing her mind, or his not respecting no for an answer.

Jane

MaryCatelli
Registered User
(8/3/07 6:06 pm)


Re: Easy to remember
A promise to do wrong ought to be broken. And , anyways,

"Then she was terribly angry, and took him up and threw him with all her might against the wall. 'Now, thou wilt be quiet, odious frog,' said she. But when he fell down he was no frog but a King's son with beautiful kind eyes."

Which is to say, it was not keeping her promise but revolting at his behavior that disenchanted him. His odious -- to her -- actions didn't stop until she insisted on their stopping.

Rosemary Lake
Registered User
(8/6/07 12:22 am)


combining
Now I'm thinking of combining this with Little Red Riding Hood. Hm. "Very well, I promised you could sleep in my little bed and all that, but I never promised I'd sleep in it with you. But I have this nice old grandmother...."

I'd better go to my own little bed.

MaryCatelli
Registered User
(8/6/07 8:16 pm)


Re: combining
Ah the quibble.

It's very odd. It's a very popular plot device, and it's simple. But I can't recall any fairy tale where either the hero or the villain quibbles a way out of a bargain.

janeyolen
Registered User
(8/8/07 3:11 am)


Re: combining
Mary--check out a variety of Jack stories, and bargains with the devil stories.

I am thinking especially about the Irish lawyer and the devil and the candles burning in the dark.

Or the ballad of the child going to school who is met by the devil and defeats him with riddles. (False Night on the Road.) Though of course there is no real inherent bargain in the story.

Jane

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